The Bears Den: July 15, 2010

by Dane Noble on Jul 15, 2010 6:46 AM CDT in The Bears Den

...where we understand the difference in net worth and operating profit.

Part 3 of Rookie Minicamp. “You’re here to please us...” -Rod Marinelli

Brad Biggs breaks down the RBs/FBs in his positional series.

Who is the best backup QB in the NFC North?

Make sure to follow Windy City Gridiron on Twitter!

Former Bears great Steve McMichael to be inducted into the College Football HOF.

SBN writer thinks Chicago would be the best fit for TO.

Brett Favre doesn't think one more year would hurt his body any more than it already is.

Packers finacial situation is not good.

A good look at the players eligible for today's Supplemental draft.

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Comments

TO is not needed in Chicago. The last thing we need is to retard the development of our receivers by taking on yet another receiver on the downside of his career, especially at the price TO is asking.

by BigGeorgeTX on Jul 15, 2010 7:58 AM CDT reply actions

Are you kidding

TO… Matt Jones, Mike Furrey, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrisson, we’re gonna go after all of ’em

He's a 300-pound man who moves like a defensive back. That's what you're dealing with." — Bears coach Lovie Smith on DE Julius Peppers

by BearNecessities on Jul 15, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions

Someone say my name????

If Mike Ditka punched you in the face, you'd have to fight off the urge to thank him.

by Ditkavsworld on Jul 15, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions

please go away...

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 15, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions

never...

If Mike Ditka punched you in the face, you'd have to fight off the urge to thank him.

by Ditkavsworld on Jul 15, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions

I never heard a price for his services?

… And to suggest that T.O. is on the “downside of his career” is still an upgrade over any receiver that is currently on the roster.

Whatever ANYONE’S bias might be about Terrell Owens, he has put up unbelievable numbers throughout his career on any team that he has been on. That doesn’t just happen by mistake.

At this stage in his career, I think he has blackballed himself in the eyes of franchise owners because of his past transgressions (rightfully so). However, to suggest that a young wide receiver unit couldn’t learn from one of the all-time greats at the position is absurd.

Owens stays in top shape (I credit that to his time under Jerry Rice; who played until he was near 40), he has great route-running ability, understands how to get off the line, and can still make plays (how he put up ANY numbers in Buffalo is beyond me; poor QB play, no Offensive Coordinator, no offensive line, etc).

Understand this, Bears fans…

… Outside of Earl Bennett (who I think is going to be the best receiver on this football team in 2010), these receivers are not strong physical receivers. These are small and quick receivers with not a lot of experience. Getting off the line of scrimmage and into their routes will be the biggest challenge for this unit in 2010. It was the problem in 2009.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions

agreed

these receivers are not strong physical receivers. These are small and quick receivers

A Martz offense favors the quick guys (Mike Furey, Torry Holt, Shawn McDonnald, Isaac Bruce), not the Michael Irvin, T.O. types…

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 15, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree that it favors the compact & quick receiver...

… But, it also is about timing and proper route running. Something that these receivers have not proven as of yet.

I do believe that there is a TREMENDOUS amount of potential at the WR position for this style of offense. My only concern is if they can turn that potential into success in a very limited time.

Many people believe that it’s “win or go home” for Lovie Smith and Co. and I won’t argue that this is NOT the case, but if that IS the case, then wouldn’t that make it almost critical that these receivers understand the importance of route running and getting off the line of scrimmage— something Owens does well at.

Now, before the next commenter feels the need to “beat me over the brow” and suggest that I think the receivers will never be able to succeed, let me clearly say that I do not think that this is the case.

I think an experienced receiver (something that the Bears HAVE sought out this offseason) accelerates the “learning curve” and could be instrumental in game day preparations.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions

An experienced receiver might have something to contribute.

However, I highly doubt that TO is that guy. Maybe his prima donna, locker-room-cancer days are behind him, but at best that’s only debatable, not proven, after merely one year of keeping his yapper shut. And I’ve never heard that TO is the teaching type. I just don’t think that he adds enough to balance out the risk of team disruption.

by oripunk3485 on Jul 15, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions

TO is too insecure and self involved to mentor younger receivers, at least while he's still playing.

by BigGeorgeTX on Jul 15, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions

I'll give you that.

One season surely doesn’t overshadow the many different outbursts by Owens (whether he was right or wrong— it was unprofessional).

However, as far as him being the teaching type, I don’t think many players consider themselves teachers. I think what Owens brings to the locker room is experience and game preparation.

There aren’t many players who takes offseason conditioning as serious as Owens does who has gained notoriety for the condition he keeps his body in. This is why he is able to perform at the pace he has been for so long. If you are a young, inexperienced teacher and a talent as Owens is in your training camp, why wouldn’t you want to emulate some of the training secrets and regiments he uses to better your career? Owens isn’t there to coach— that’s Drake’s job. He’s there to be a receiver, which he has done at a high level for a VEARY long time.

For those who say that his numbers have fallen, besides last season in offensively inept Buffalo, when have his numbers been diminishing?

Again, I think a lot of personal bias has a lot to do with why people dislike Owens and I’m not saying that is unfair. I just think it’s unrealistic to suggest that he is not a good football player today because of it.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions

The one year he shut his mouth....

And he throws up career worst numbers.

by Brendan Hess on Jul 16, 2010 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions

"he's a cancer"

So sayeth Da Coach. That’s enough for me.

But his numbers are declining, and he has been dropping a lot of catchable balls the last few years.

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 15, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions

When did Da Coach say that?

Once in 2006 and 2008. Certainly understandable considering the instances, but that was 2 seasons ago.

I think what people do not like is the unprofessionalism he displayed in those instances with the 49ers and the Eagles. He was dealing with two prima donna QBs whose EGOS were bigger than their game at that time (Garcia and McNabb). Did Owens make them better QBs? Absolutely! But, does that give him the right to throw the face of the franchise under the bus and start a whirlwind of negative media for the organization? Not at all!

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions

T.O.

Has and always will be all about himself. He was a Hell of a player back in the day, but at this point in his career he’s just struggling to hold on.

He was dealing with two prima donna QB’s and he had to make sure his ego stood out above theirs.

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 15, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions

What year was he not an above-average receiver?

Buffalo? Who would count that as a “credible” year?

Name another season he was not a force on the football field?

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions

2008 he was OK

but he had a ton of drops… he’ll be 37 years old this year, his career is winding down, his on field performance may not live up to his ego ever again.

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 15, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Perhaps...

… But, as oripunk noted above that one-year doesn’t give a good description of where a person is in their maturity— certanly the same can be said for a player of Owens on-the-field resume and his game up to this point.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions

I'll admit

I think he’s a self centered tool… I’m not sure if his look at me attitude is a good thing for the Bears locker room.

If he were signed I’d set the over/under at 3 weeks before Kruetz punches him in the face.

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 15, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Now I say sign him...

If he were signed I’d set the over/under at 3 weeks before Kruetz punches him in the face.

…just so this can happen!

by oripunk3485 on Jul 15, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions

But who is to say a "Martz offense" lasts more than 1 year?

Tailoring rosters to play only one specific pattern of play is risky. you might hit it big or you might have a total failure and be left wanting.

That said, all teams do it to an extent and I still say no TO. Unless the price drops way down.

by TheMan1 on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Can someone PLEASE tell me what this "mystery" price is!?? haha?

There is no “going rate” for Owens services at this point as NO TEAM has even considered an offer for him. As he [Owens] said on ESPN yesterday, he is “being blackballed” for his past actions.

And with 2011 being “up in the air” in terms of who will be coaching after the 2010 campaign, it would be wise for any team in a similar situation to sign a veteran like Owens to a one-year deal and I think Owens expects that considering he had a the same type of deal in Buffalo last season.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Exactly = No but we can guess ballparks

T.O. has not stated a “I must make this much”

But let’s consider this from just a few days ago

Owens doesn’t feel like like his asking price is too high, though admitted he just wants to be paid like a starter.

“I’m not pricing myself out of the market at all — again, those are rumors,” he said.

From this Link

So a starting #1 salary is what on average, $8 – $12 million? His Bills salary was 1 year, $6.5 million.

So I am guessing he signs for in the neighborhood of $5 million minimum. Because he still believes he is the stuff and he is going to be a gamechanger.

by TheMan1 on Jul 15, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

A starting receiver in the NFL also is a #2 (or in some cases-- a slot receiver) as well.

Those receivers make anywhere from $1.5 million dollars to $4 million per.

No where does he say he wants to a no. 1 receiver, which would make on average the $9 million+ you suggested. He wants to be paid as a starter for a football team.

A good reference would be Steve Breaston’s one-year deal in Arizona for $2.3 million. Breaston was no. 3 to Fitz and Boldin in 2009 and put up similar numbers in the 2009 season.

In an uncapped year, if the Bears see him as bringing something to the table that they do not have/can not get from their WR unit, that would be a nice negotiating point and reasonable.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions

Someone needs reading comprehension

You say:

No where does he say he wants to a no. 1 receiver, which would make on average the $9 million+ you suggested. He wants to be paid as a starter for a football team.

I said:

So I am guessing he signs for in the neighborhood of $5 million minimum. Because he still believes he is the stuff and he is going to be a gamechanger.

Just so we are on the same page 9 mill > 5 mill by 4 mill or about 44%

by TheMan1 on Jul 15, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

SIGH!... sarcasm. :-/ smh "Why?"

Respectfully, TheMan1…

… Your “non-supported” $5 million minimum estimate is what I was replying to when I said:

No where does he say he wants to a no. 1 receiver, which would make on average the $9 million+ you suggested. He wants to be paid as a starter for a football team.

A good reference would be Steve Breaston’s one-year deal in Arizona for $2.3 million. Breaston was no. 3 to Fitz and Boldin in 2009 and put up similar numbers in the 2009 season.

You see…

… That’s debateable! We can debate Steve Breaston’s 2009 season to Owens’ 2009. We can debate his $2.3 million contract that he signed for one year.

I can’t debate your opinion that he “believes he is the stuff and is going to be a gamechanger” so YOUR guessis that he is getting a minimum of $5 million.

P.S.— No need for sarcasm. I read your reply fully and found it logical enough to reply with a well-thought out response. No sarcasm or name-calling. Hopefully, you can extend the same.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Judging by his attitude alone

I was not being sarcastic. Which part of…

the $9 million+ you suggested

… am I getting wrong? I never suggested he wanted that. That is all I was trying to clear up. I based the $5 mill on what he made last year and his ego.

He still thinks he is a star. He is a very proud and very rich man.

He made $6.5 million last year, I highly doubt his pride, nor his agent is going to let him sign a 1 year/ $1 million deal.

by TheMan1 on Jul 15, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions

What attitude?

He actually didn’t make a peep on a horrible team last year and we ALL know how Owens hates to lose.

Analysts blamed him for the offensive woes when there were SO many glaring holes on that offense— not to mention— a coaching change midseason.

What Owens is has said in his latest press release is that:

1.) He realizes that his past actions have brought him to this point that no team wants to consider him for a contract.

2.) That he is at the final stages of his career (i.e.— he stated he wants to play for a contender) and that he doesn’t want to be a no.1, but feels he can still be an option as a starter.

3.) Understands that he is not going to be paid like a no.1 receiver in the NFL, but a starter wouldn’t be egregious.

4.) Wants to make it clear, that there were circumstances that enable him to put up “typical” Owens numbers. Namely, the QB changes, the offensive lin changes, and the COACHING changes.

Sidenote— I think you misunderstood the post on “no. 1 receiver money”. I was not saying you said that. I was referring to the fact that Owens understands that he is not going to get no. 1 receiver money. That he is looking for no. 2 money. THen, I gave you an example of no. 2 money with similar production.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions

He made some peeps.

For example, this exchange after a loss. Y’know, the one featuring the repeated “I’m just going with the plays that are called.”

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Jul 15, 2010 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Really?

C’mon, Kev…

… The reporters next question after he asked a “probing” question that should have been directed to the QB in that game, was are you getting frustrated with his questions to which he responded:

“I’m good… I’m just ready to get to preparing for next week’s game.”

How is that being same ol’ T.O.?

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 16, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions

This way:

The play on the field sucked.

The continued comment of “I’m going with the plays that are called” are a, in my opinion, not-so-subtle way to shift blame to playcalling/coaching, instead of what, from the admittedly limited action I saw, was lackluster play.

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Jul 16, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Sidenote makes sense

Also, about the “peep” he did not make.

While I admit he was better than previous years, I do not know that 1 year makes up for all of the things he has done in his what 12 previous.

It’s like saying your paperboy is great because he made your porch today, although the last 12 days he did not give you a paper or stuck it in the mud on purpose.

by TheMan1 on Jul 16, 2010 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions

I can agree with that.

One year of “swallowing your pride” doesn’t constitute a change.

All I was saying from the very beginning of this convo was that people shouldn’t equate Owens talent and skill with his mouth. They are two different things.

I think there are a lot of bias out there because of that.

I’m not a Kobe Bryant fan, but if someone asked if he was the best basketball player in the world I would say “unquestionably!”

To say Owens is not a good receiver because of one shoddy season in Buffalo is a slap in the face of a decade of good football at the position that he has produced.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 16, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think anyone says he isn't good

Past his prime yes. Declining yes. But he is still good.

I think skill and ability to help a team are very different too.

That should be the debate. Would his overall presence help the team or not vrs. his price and what else must be given up. Having skills on the field doesn’t always translate to helping a team, much of what his mouth has done to teams in the past.

by TheMan1 on Jul 16, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions

You have to make it a Martz conversation....

Because you aren’t talking about drafting a guy for the next decade, you are talking about bringing in a 37 year old receiver. If it isn’t about THIS year, why even talk about him?

by Brendan Hess on Jul 16, 2010 6:40 AM CDT up reply actions

TO still considers himself a #1 receiver, and demands that he be the primary receiver on the majority of passing plays called

Of which he’ll drop about half. He gives up on his routes when stood up at the line and won’t block downfield. He fattens up his stats in blowout games and totally disappears in others. He gets stood up at the line more often than not. Yes, he’s in fantastic physical shape, but at this point in his career he’s about fattening up his statistics and getting as much money as he can doing it, and if his team is successful, but he isn’t acknowledged as the reason for it, he’ll go into a sulk and divide the locker room. Also, I can’t imagine his ego co-existing with Martz’s.

Just my observations from his time in Dallas. TO was a great receiver and is still better than most, but when you weigh his contributions against his negatives, there’s no way…

by BigGeorgeTX on Jul 15, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

well said

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 15, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions

What's FACT and what's FICTION

Question: T.O. considers himself a no. 1 receiver and will demand the football? FICTION

— As told to Rachel Cohen of the Associated Press, T.O. says that he “still has enough talent to be a starter on a team”. He doesn’t see himself as a no. 1 receiver, but as a compliment to a no. 1 receiver.

— In 2008, Owens was the 3rd highest targeted receiver on the Cowboys behind Witten and Austin. In 2009, the Buffalo Bills were the 2nd to WORST passing team in the NFL and couldn’t get a pass attempt off if they tried. They ranked 31st in pass attempts and gave up 46 sacks. To even consider that a justified season is unfair.

Question: Drops passes?

According to the Washington Post, Dwayne Bowe had the most dropped passes in 2009 (11). In 2008, Braylon Edwards with 16. In both seasons, Owens had 9 drops. Does that he has/does not have a receiving problem? No. There are many factors that play into a pass attempt. I think saying that T.O. doesn’t catch the football well is some kind of a unquantifiable reason sports analysts and fans give to downgrade his performance.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions

CM, I respect your knowledge of the game and have been a fan of your posts at the CBS board and here.

But living here in the DFW area, and listening to sports radio here, I get a lot of information that doesn’t necessarily make it to the national media, especially about the team disruptions attributed to TO. Jerry Jones loved TO’s ability but admitted the team got better when he left, which by the way is why Miles Austin had a breakout year in 2009. Miles wouldn’t have gotten the opportunity if TO had stayed. So that goes back to my remark about stunting WR development with TO on the team.

One of the most frustrating things is not being able to hear the sports talk radio from Chicago, especially when theres talk on the board about what was written or said in the local media.

by BigGeorgeTX on Jul 15, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions

EPSN Radio online, bro.

It’s not the greatest, but I love Waddle & Silvy show.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, but I work during the day and can't stay logged on to the Internet. Isn't their show on at noon?

When I first moved from the Chicago area to TN, the Sunday news there led off with NASCAR and just gave NFL scores. College football ruled in the south. ESPN didn’t give the Bears much love (that’s one thing that hasn’t changed) and the Bears were never on national TV. A lot has changed and it’s fairly easy to follow them now, but there’s no coverage like local coverage.

by BigGeorgeTX on Jul 16, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions

RE: Owens in Big D

I don’t doubt that Owens had issues in Dallas.

I think Owens wanted the same relationship his starting QB that Romo and Witten had and that frustrated him. I think it just played out in the fashion of him making a radical accusation of “favoritism” between Romo and Witten.

Again, I’m not saying that Owens would work out in Chicago…

… But, I’m not saying he would be a poor decision if the Bears DID bring him in.

There is a lot of potential on the Bears at WR, but there certainly isn’t anything that should make anyone feel like “WR is a lock to do well”.

Is there some grooming needed? Absolutely!

Could watching the preparation of a veteran that has always been in pristine condition and has played in some huge games with some great teams help? Of course!

Contracts are not only about money, but setting the expectation. The Bears could draw out what they expect from him and how he figures into their young receiving unit.

Owens just wants a championship run and unlike most NFL analysts…

… He believes that the Bears could be a contender.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions

TO was the 3rd highest targeted receiver... behind Witten and Austin.

And how many times was it seen that TO was yelling at or caused some kind of problems for Romo? When TO wasn’t the main target he got upset and demanded the ball. That is the last thing that the Bears need. Somebody in Cutler’s face yelling at him to get him the ball more. TO has been about himself and always will be. To bad for TO it’s a team game and everybody has to play a part.

We are who we think we are.

by Bearfan1973 on Jul 15, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions

I understand that, BF1973...

… But, on a HORRIBLE Bills team with bashing from all sports analysts, he held his piece and played through.

Again, I think at this point in his career, the immaturity and unprofessionalism is behind Owens and he wants to end his career on a high note (i.e.— championship run)

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Don't forget Plax when he finally gets out

WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!

by Acreman20 on Jul 15, 2010 8:39 AM CDT reply actions

Damn reply fail!!

WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!

by Acreman20 on Jul 15, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Rod Marinelli

I like the H.S. tryouts-mentality! haha!

With a tremendous amount of turnover on the defensive side of the ball, it’s going to be a challenge to get these guys in “week 1” mindset.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens in camp with the personalities and position battles.

Semper Fi

by ChicagoMarine on Jul 15, 2010 10:04 AM CDT reply actions

Jim McMahon Article from LA Times

Jim McMahon is still a bad ass and still one of the coolest people out there IMO: Link

"I was interviewing George Halas and I asked him who is the greatest running back you ever saw. And he said, 'That would be Red Grange.' And I asked him if Grange was playing today, how many yards do you think he'd gain. And he said, 'About 750, maybe 800 yards.' And I said, 'Well, 800 yards is just okay.' He sat up in his chair and he said, 'Son, you must remember one thing. Red Grange is 75 years old.' - Chris Berman

by Sam Householder on Jul 15, 2010 10:19 AM CDT reply actions

Yes he is

Good article

by TheMan1 on Jul 15, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions

He's an idiot, but an entertaining idiot

What could he and the Bears have accomplished if he could have stayed healthy?

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jul 16, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions