Ditka's Lounge- Carry my bags Rook!
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 27, 2010 1:48 PM CDT
65 comments
Welcome back everyone, please take a step around the velvet rope because as a WCG member you are always a VIP in Ditka's Lounge. Grab your favorite beverage and a Polish sausage it's time once again to find out what grinds my gear. This weeks topic obviously by the title you can see spawned itself just the other day. It has been a highly debated topic on all the talking head shows yesterday. I decided to tell you my toughts on the topic and then get your opinions on what you think. So what do you say? Let's jump in....
So what do you see in the photos posted above? Good natured fun at someone else's expense, that's exactly right. The question is though if the guys were given an option would they say no? And if they did does that make them not a good team guy? What started all of this? Well for those of you that may have missed it, the newest Cowboy Dez Bryant has refused to carry Roy Williams pads because according to him they hired him to play football not carry his pads.
So what we have now is a rookie who has now said in not so many words that he does not care about tradition. I guess it depends on who you talk to or listen to on this topic because some people think it's great that Bryant has done this. Well I for one think it's garbage. I know from past topics and discussions on various threads that many of you have been members or are a part of a team or organization that these types of traditions might be a part of. Many of you at one time or another have been that rookie that was "hazed". Don't get me wrong I'm not a supporter of people who use hazing as a form of abuse, but asking someone to carry your pads to the locker room is far from abuse or demeaning.
There is such a thing as a right of passage and in the case of the NFL rookies and vets engage in "rituals" or "hazing" in which the teams become closer. Obviously getting a goofy haircut with the intent to make you look like bozo serves no other purpose but to see if you are willing to take one for the team and put the team and your teammates before your own needs. It has been said that respect is not given it is earned and a good way to earn the respect of your peers is to show them that everyone shares a common goal. During my life I have been subjected to being the rookie or the new guy and had to do tasks or something that I might not neccessarily have wanted to do but I did it to show that the organization or the team was the most important thing and that earning the respect of my peers was a priority.
I don't know what will come of this in the future, many have said that Dez will probably end up supplanting Roy Williams as a starter at some point in time in this year but as of right now he's done nothing to prove that he is above this. I have rambled on long enough I'm sure that some of you will feel differently than I do and I welcome you thoughts and opinion on the topic.
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Sir I had to go with the default here
because, well, the packers do suck
He's a 300-pound man who moves like a defensive back. That's what you're dealing with." — Bears coach Lovie Smith on DE Julius Peppers
by BearNecessities on Jul 27, 2010 2:05 PM CDT reply actions
Yes, yes they do.
If Mike Ditka punched you in the face, you'd have to fight off the urge to thank him.
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 27, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I had to agree.........
you can pretty much throw any options for just about any question in a poll and add “Packers Suck” to the list of answers, and that’ll be the one I choose.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
Yes, and I'm kinda disappointed that it's not in first right now.
Hate Schlareth all you want, but keep it in perspective.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
I voted Packers suck
Mainly because it seemed like the most logical vote to choose. The only people that I’ve heard that support Bryant not following tradition are the bozo Dallas fans that are still sour over the Williams trade and the fact that he hasn’t lived up to it. I was actually a fan of Bryant’s until I heard this:
“I feel like I was drafted to play football, not carry another player’s pads.”
That’s just arrogant and something only a “ME” first kind of person would say. Tradition is tradition dude. Whether it’s carrying pads, getting a silly haircut, paying for meals, or singing in front of the team. Hell, if I was just drafted by the Bears, was making the kind of money a rook makes, and Urlacher came up to me and told me to wear a dress, wig, and makeup to the next team meeting, I’d do it.
These are vets who’ve earned their money by busting their asses for the team. Bryant hasn’t done a damn thing to warrant that $11.8 million contract. Show your respect and pay your dues buddy.
WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!
What's worse?
“I want to work to take this bozo’s job” or “Look at me, I’m a vet, carry my pads rook!”
I WANT my guy to be drafted to play football. Far as I’m concerned, a team already has guys to maintain equipment and move stuff. They’re called equipment managers.
I think in the NFL anymore you need to have some Me First in you, especially with non-guaranteed contracts. Carrying pads doesn’t help that, working hard on the field does. That’s the only part that matters IMO and it sounds like that’s what Dez wants to do.
I'm with you on this one.
Who cares about Roy friggin’ Williams? He’s an over-rated hack. I still remember that game against the Bears in 2008. He was actually slapping the ball away because he’s a whiney crybaby.
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Stupid babies need the most attention!
by David Taylor on Jul 27, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
If you don't vote 3, 4 or 5
That’s okay, America hates you too.
In serious, I don’t get what the big deal is. If you draft a guy, presumably you’re asking him to help the football team win games. Unless you’re concerned that A) Roy Williams is a better WR now than Dez Bryant AND B) Roy Willams is going to dislocate a shoulder by carrying his own pads back to the locker room, I don’t see how pad carrying helps the team win games.
Really? This just in, Roy, he’s trying to take your job. Less focus on pecking order and more focus on winning football games? I’d be happy to hear that a rookie comes out and wants to play football.
It's about.....
Showing rookies that tradition and place are more important than the “Me” attitiude. It helps to set a mindset. Honestly, in the modern age of “me first” football, I’m not sure it matters any more.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
I have nothing against tradition and I hate a vocal "me" attitude more than just about anyone
I’d love it if the entire team went to camp and everyone quietly went about the business of becoming better football players and just worked hard. I especially don’t mind a quiet “me first” attitude if it means “I’m going to become as good a football player as I can be and I’m going to take your damn job.”
(Obviously, I’m drawing the line somewhere before authoring “Give Me The Damn Ball”, holding out for more money before you’ve played a single snap, or any of Terrell Owens’ histrionics.)
I just don’t understand why any of this “Carry my pads rook!” stuff is even necessary. I’d think by the time a guy gets to the NFL, he knows he’ll have to do two things: work hard and do his part to win games. It sounds to me like that’s what Dez wants to do. I don’t think any “knowing your place” or anything matters.
Except.....
It’s not a quite attitude now. It was very vocal when he refused to do something that he thought was beneath him even when the other rookies are, and have been for a long time, expected to do. It’s that simple. It shows that he feels that while it might be just fine for them, he’s above that. To me, that shows a lot about how “me first” he is, and very loudly, considering the coverage this has gotten.
And I’ll pose this question…….if every player that makes it to this level knows hard work and doing their part (i.e. team first) when they get here, can someone kindly explain JaMarcus Russell, Terrell Owens, LenDale White, Adam Jones, Chad Ocho-Cinco, Charles Rogers, Cedric Benson and /or any of the other selfish and/or lazy players we’ve been watching for the past several decades at an increased frequency? Just sayin’…..
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
I see what you're doing there...
Tell me what Russell, White, PacMan and C-Rog are doing now? TO and Ocho are both dingbats of the highest order, but both spent some quality time amongst the best of the league at the receiver position. Benson got it after a point and they’re illustrating the ultimate point of my thing: If you show up wanting to work and wanting to play, you’ll be fine. If you don’t, the league weeds you out faster than a dandelion on a RoundUp commercial.
I think Dez gets this. Remember when he said he didn’t want to hold out? Far as I can see, there’s one thing he wants to keep the focus on and that’s on working to be a wide receiver for the Dallas Cowboys. "I feel like I was drafted to play football, not carry another player’s pads." I don’t consider that arrogant at all; hell, if I was a first-rounder, I’d feel like the team wanted me to play football too!
Has he actually come out and said that his fellow rooks should do the crap, but that he shouldn’t? Not that I’ve seen. Further, from The Dallas Morning News Via Rotoworld:
Dez Bryant insists his relationship with Roy Williams is great, saying he had no idea that carrying shoulder pads was a rookie tradition in the NFL.
“It was never an issue,” said Bryant. “The media made it an issue. It was never nothing.” That much is obvious. It’s been a non-story all along. Coach Wade Phillips confirmed as much Monday night, and Williams seconded that notion on Tuesday. Bryant said he has no problem picking up dinner or doing other chores for veterans this summer.
So everything sounds all well and good. I still don’t think he should have do it, but that’s just me. I really think he was just focused on the football aspect of camp.
Actually, the fact that.....
most of them aren’t in the league is my point. Bryant hasn’t proven a thing. And the fact that he now has no problem with the tradition also illustrates the point. Now he doesn’t have any problem with it. Seems like either someone got into his ear about the attitude, or he didn’t have an attitude and just misunderstood the tradition as a whole. Either way, he seems to get the point now.
As to the him not them thing…..in his previous comments he has spoken of himself not being willing to do it, not as if rookies should have to do it. I very well could be reading to much into the comment, and I’m not judging him as an overall person or player by it. But it didn’t come off well as I saw it. That’s all I’m saying. I think you might misunderstadn what I’m trying to say here. My comments were never meant as an indictment of Bryant, but as an indictment of one single opinion that he had that I didn’t agree with.
As far as your last paragraph, your entitled to your opinion, and I don’t think that there is any right or wrong answer here. As I said before, in the modern, “me first” NFL, the tradition might have outlived it’s usefulness anyways.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
Probably has and agreed.
Bryant hasn’t proven a thing, but it just sounds to me like he’s focusing on one thing, catching Romo’s balls (careful, there…) and proving himself as an NFL receiver. Everything seems like it fits, he just didn’t understand it’s a rookie thing. Like I said, I want my rookies coming in wanting to play – and consequently prove themselves. Sounds like that what he wants to do. I agree it’s a little weak, and someone might’ve said “Hey, just do it, it’s not gonna hurt anything,” but so? What matters to me is he came in focused on football.
(shrugs) Rookie garbage is what it is. I don’t think he (or any rook) should have to do it – what about it directly correlates to winning football games? But meh, you’re right, I guess on the end opinion we can agree to disagree. I think you might be reading too much into the comment.
One final thing… Your point and mine are pretty much in agreement – if you don’t show up serious about playing, the league will pretty much reject you. I might’ve been wrong using an absolute like “By the time you get to the NFL you know what’s expected of you” but I think we both agree with the other statement. For all the yakking Ocho and Owens do, they have produced over their careers; let’s not confuse Allen Iverson with these two just yet.
Owens and Ocho.....
While both have produced well, neither has much to show for it (I’m not talking about rings, here, but respect. Hell, the fact that Owens doesn’t have a ring, especially in the ‘04 season, has little to do with Owens. Hell, he pretty much single handedly willed them to a win in the NFC Championship game.), and Owens (by far the worst of the two in attitude, as I think Ocho is a bit misunderstood and a lot more likable) is having a hard time finding a job because of it. I mean, honestly, what team in this league couldn’t use someone with Owens talent, even as it is diminishing? It’s his “me First” risks that have teams shying away, while guys like Torry Holt continue to find roster spots.
I get your point about the hazing and the focus. I’d just submit that, while I want a player focused on football, I don’t think the mild NFL hazing is distracting from that focus. If Jerry Rice, Tim Brown, Sterling Sharpe, Steve Largent and Terrell Owens all dealt with it, why shouldn’t or can’t Dez Bryant? Why is it suddenly an issue when it wasn’t a problem for any of those guys, and Rice, Brown and Sharpe were all first round picks? I really think it’s much ado about nothing. And I think your calling it “Rookie garbage” is spot on. The media (and in turn we) have made more of an issue about this than it should have been.
And you’re right, I think we agree on far more than we disagree on here, as usual.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
Definitely agreed on Owens being more of a cancer.
Owens is everything that’s wrong with the “Me First” mentality. And while he’s had his stats, he single-handedly destroyed that Eagles locker room. I don’t think he’s got the talent left to be the #1 (but let’s all back off the ledge and remember his last QB was Trent Freaking Edwards) but ability-wise he and Ocho together (1-year, 2 Mildo deal with Cinci?) could be great, especially with Palmer. It’s just a matter of their egos…
The rookie “hazing” shouldn’t distract, it’s just minor crap; I just question it’s place (wait, I think I saw the horse twitch…). Completely agree with you.
And you’re right, I think we agree on far more than we disagree on here, as usual.
Funny how that works, lol.
I went to the same high school as T.O.
By all accounts he was a quiet guy back then. Things change over time apparently.
WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!
Simply put, it is not necessary
the vets don’t do it to make the team better or more cohesive, that is just the excuse, the rationalization. The real reason the vets do it to the rooks, because someone did it to them when they were rookies. Nothing else.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 28, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Rituals are a part of life! In high school on the bus
we used to make the smallest 2 freshman do under the seat races from the front of the bus to the back. Dex Bryant if it was good enough for them then you can pick up the damn pads!! (whoops was this hazing???)
"He is remarkably bright", a "terrific talent", the sky is the limit for Cutler"
-Mike Martz-
Keyshawn Johnson is on Bryants side in this.
That says it all.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
right.....
Now I know I’m on the side opposite Bryant (and Johnson).
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
I'm not taking a firm stand on this other than to say
that I coach high school and the freshmen carry the equipment. That aside it is rather funny the Meshawn used some of the same arguments you are to justify the rookies actions.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
??
I’m just saying that as long as Dez’s focus is on the position he was drafted for, I can give him a pass (especially given what was quoted above, that it was just a misunderstanding). But really, far as I’m concerned you draft players to play and hire equipment managers to manage equipment (plus all my ranting against hazing and garbage like that). The fact that this got blown up to hell just means everyone’s too ancy for that first regular season kickoff.
OK
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
Carrying the team's equipment is one thing
but carrying some vet’s personal equipment is a whole nuther thing and has no place. That is what Bryant is refusing to do. Good for him.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 28, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely right.....
There’s no place for tradition in the world.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
I'm not sure but me thinks I smell sarcasim. :)
If Mike Ditka punched you in the face, you'd have to fight off the urge to thank him.
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 28, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Tradition is great, but some traditions are lame, like this one
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jul 28, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I had to go with my default which is "Mark Schlereth is a douche bag"
although, I’d have to say Lane Kiffin is making a strong run to displace Schlereth as the biggest douche in football.
"4 more years of Douchebag!"
family guy reference….
"He is remarkably bright", a "terrific talent", the sky is the limit for Cutler"
-Mike Martz-
I voted for the douche bag
All of us here at WCG already know that the Packers suck, and the Vikings blow, I think we need to get the word out more on Mark Schlereth being the biggest douche bag on ESPN, and that’s saying something, cause that network is full of them.
As far as the Dez Bryant topic, I think the media made more of this to have something to talk about, I don’t think having to carry some football pads is that big of a deal, he is the rookie, we all have been the rookie at something at some point, and we have had to deal with more experienced people at work, you keep your mouth shut and your ears open, and you’ll learn a few things, you’re the rookie, now shut up, pick up the pads, and go get everyone lunch.
What were they thinking?
by touchdown bears on Jul 27, 2010 4:30 PM CDT reply actions
Really?
Because for some reason, I think there are more "Mark Schlereth is a dbag " references on WCG than there are “Packers Suck” ones.
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Stupid babies need the most attention!
by David Taylor on Jul 27, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Packers suck
Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck Packers suck. 1/2 way to making it even and my fingers are too tired….
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
by Just Dave on Jul 27, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
It's more important for everyone to know
that the Packers suck, over knowing Mark is a Dbag
He's a 300-pound man who moves like a defensive back. That's what you're dealing with." — Bears coach Lovie Smith on DE Julius Peppers
by BearNecessities on Jul 28, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I like to give the people what they want.
If Mike Ditka punched you in the face, you'd have to fight off the urge to thank him.
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 28, 2010 5:22 AM CDT up reply actions
oops
I wanted to say more.
In this situation, I could easily see not only the veterans taking exception to Pez’s decision, but the other rookies as well.
His comment,
"I feel like I was drafted to play football, not carry another player’s pads."
I would imagine more than one fellow rookie on the team read that or heard that and thought. So I’m not here to play football? I’m just here to carry pads?
But whatever, he’s another diva WR. What else is new?
Dent for HOF!
He's a 300-pound man who moves like a defensive back. That's what you're dealing with." — Bears coach Lovie Smith on DE Julius Peppers
by BearNecessities on Jul 28, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think so...
It’s called the National Football League, not the National Pad-Carrying League. For all we know, Dez was voicing what they all were thinking.
(/speculation)
Nobody wants to carry the pads...
It’s a right of passage. Always has been. I played, I get it.
Judging by your statements above, there is no chance we see eye to eye on this.
Agree to disagree.
San Diego was discovered by the Germans. San Diego means the whales vagina and there is no way I’m changing my mind!
His response to all of this was telling as well.
First he went with “I didn’t know.” What a bunch of bullshit. Anyone who’s played ball at any level knows what to expect. For him to even try and claim that he didn’t know about hazing is just ridiculous.
And then he went back to the well with the “it’s all the media’s fault” card. Same thing he did after his suspension, same thing he did when his draft stock kept dropping because of poor combine/workout numbers and a piss-poor attitude. It’s always someone elses fault. I already hate this entitled a-hole and he’s been in the league for about five minutes.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
Well said JerBear50!
Teeth big and pointy and his eyes were buggin’ out,
Contracted the union, put the beggars to rout.
Screamin’ and yellin’, he was pickin’ his chops,
He never runs he just stumbles and hops.
Just out of prison on ten dollars bail,
Mumblin’ bitches and waggin’ his tail.
Call for his whiskey and he can
call for his tea
Call all he want to
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
Damn, don't know what happened there.
…but he can’t call me
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
I will say this for the kid.......
If someone had asked me if my mother was a prostitute, I don’t know if I would have been able to handle it as well as he did. I’m thinking that this is another case of microscopic view problems. When you stick anyone under a microscope, you’ll find some interesting, and maybe disturbing, stuff.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
The Pez Bryant dispenser
with special pads attachment! The fastest-spitting Pez dispenser because it doesn’t want to hold them! Yours for only 19.95!
A traditiuon that needs to go away sooner rather than later
And is there really any doubt why Williams is picking on Bryant?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
anyone here who is prior service
or active duty is probably shaking their head at the stupidity of this rookie. what a naive fool this kid is.
Amen.
If Mike Ditka punched you in the face, you'd have to fight off the urge to thank him.
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 28, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I chuckled a bit while head shaking
He's a 300-pound man who moves like a defensive back. That's what you're dealing with." — Bears coach Lovie Smith on DE Julius Peppers
by BearNecessities on Jul 28, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Williams should be carrying Bryant's pads.
Considering how well Williams has NOT played the last few years.
My bet is that Williams wants Bryant to do the lifting now since Williams will be carrying Bryant’s jock by Week 6.
Good choice......
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
Similar experience.
Too much fallacioustivitinessicissitissness.
"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson
"More bell cow" - Lovie Smith
by spleensplitter on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
now the foolish rookie has a viable excuse
to not carry anyone else’s pads, as he is going to be on crutches for awhile.
Yup that karma is a bitch.
I wonder if Roy will cary his stuff for him?
If Mike Ditka punched you in the face, you'd have to fight off the urge to thank him.
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 31, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
lol
Sigh. As an OK state alum, i was interested in Bryant’s progress. I thought the NCAA was harsh in booting him from his Sr year for just talking to Deon Sanders and then panicking when asked about it. I figured he was a naive kid, no real problem. Now I wonder…is he really that full of himself? and is his momma really a ho?
Is it football season yet?
Can you say Karma
He wouldn’t carry someones pads, and now he has to find someone to carry his playbook, good luck rookie
What were they thinking?
by touchdown bears on Jul 31, 2010 7:42 AM CDT reply actions
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