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2010 Minnesota Vikings might be the 2007-2009 Chicago Bears.

This might upset some of the hardcore Minnesota Vikings fans who happen to look over at this page every now and then, but I don't mean it as an insult-- just as an interesting observation.

Allow me to explain...

Star-divide

... In 2006, the Chicago Bears took there "force the turnover" defense and all-star return man Devin Hester to the Super Bowl to square off against the indestructible Peyton Manning and Lovie Smith's BFF Tony Dungy.  The game really could have went either way (IMO), but ultimately a few costly turnovers by the offense and one terrible coverage play from the safety position (where else?) led to a decisive win for the Colts and Manning's first Super Bowl victory.


Chicago fans were devastated and-- if you were like me-- turned off anything remotely associated with sports for a couple weeks.

In 2007, the Bears brought back essentially the same team minus Ron "Chico" Rivera and a few reserve players.  They were thought to be the preseason favorites to win the NFC, but the issues that plagued them in 2006 (inconsistent QB play, secondary concerns) were prevalent still along with a few outlining factors.  These same factors just might be the same problems for the 2009 NFC North Champion Minnesota VIkings.  I see it as three things:

  1. Offensive line-- One of the problems with the 2007-2009 Chicago Bears, was that they never had a "lineman-in-waiting" for the aging veterans that were brought in once Angelo took over as GM and Director of Personnel. John Tait (32), Rueben Brown (35), and Fred Miller (34) were thought to be stop gap free agents that were supposed to fill in for a few years until Angelo was able to select talent through the draft and slowly infuse them into the lineup.  Terrence Metcalf, Anthony Oakley, and Josh Beekman (just to name a few) really never panned out as expected.  Beekman has shown some promise, but might never be more than a quality backup his entire career.  The offensive line was a strong point for the Bears in 2005 and 2006, but age crippled their effectiveness and the offense slowly went with it.  The Vikings veteran offensive line, which has led to some VERY successful offensive campaigns, has been in the throws of a few injuries to their key lineman-- Hutchinson & McKinnie.  There have been several reports of recent suggesting that both of these guys might be on the decline.  In fact, I think that the offense did well in spite of the offensive line; not because of it.  Like the Bears, the Vikings seem to be rolling the dice by allowing McKinnie and Hutch to line up side-by-side another year and hoping for another 2008 season, but I don't know if that's what they will get.  And with no player in the wings-- this might be a costly strategy.  Favre is 40+ and was on his back most of his "one series".  Adrian "Purple Jesus" Peterson is still a great back and has a lot left in the tank, but there was a considerable difference in his YPA in 2009 than in both of his first two seasons.
  2. Void at WR-- One of the BEST moves the Vikings were able to do in 2008 was take away the Bears only receiving threat in Bernard Berrian.  Now, I would not have paid "B2X" the amount of money that the Vikes did either, but it did leave the Bears with no options at the receiver position for the 2008 season.  In 2007, the Bears were thought to have a plethora of options along with Devin Hester seeing some action at receiver for the first time, but (looking at no. 1 on this piece) the offensive line's inability to protect and block left that option a mute point.  In 2010, the Vikings will be relying on Bernard Berrian to step up and be a no. 1 receiver with Percy Harvin and Sidney Rice BOTH being injured to start the season. Can Berrian be the no. 1 receiver he is being paid to be?  I'm not sure.  However, with only Visanthe Shiancoe and a host of fringe talented receivers at Favre's disposal like Javon Walker (think Marty Booker) and Greg Lewis (think Brandon Lloyd)-- I see this being a matter of time before it shows that a lack of "playmakers" to throw to becomes problematic.  Who steps up out of the young bunch of receivers (outside of the ones listed) is the main concern.
  3. Secondary?-- On defense, the Vikings are led by one of the best front line in the game. Jared Allen is as dominant a pass rusher as there is in the NFL; when he doesn’t get to the quarterback for sacks, he’s incessantly hitting and hurrying them. On the other side, Ray Edwards has used opposing focus on Allen to put up his own outstanding numbers. And in the middle, Pat and Kevin Williams comprise a force that has put the Vikings at or near the top in run-stopping metrics every season over the last few years.  But, one statistic reveals the Vikings’ current primary liability. Minnesota hurried opposing quarterbacks on 23.8 percent of pass plays, the highest in the league, according to Football Outsiders. However, they had the worst Defensive DVOA (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) in the NFL when they did so. This was primarily the fault of a secondary that finished the 2009 season ranked 22nd in DVOA against the pass.  The Vikings run a C2 just like the Bears do-- to a fault!  They rarely blitz (Football Outsiders have them at 67% rushing only 4) and drop their LBs into coverage or spy.  So, you would assume that they would have their hands on more passes than they did in 2009.  But, injury and "lack of talent" has that secondary very suspect.  The Bears relied upon a banged up Charles Tillman and a injured Nathan Vasher from 2007-2009.  They also never could replace the oft injured Mike Brown at safety (a critical position for ANY C2 system).  They had some young talent, but none of them have ever showed promise.  I think this is also something that the Vikings should be wary about going into the 2010 season.

... Saying all this to say, if the Bears can some find some consistency in their offense, there is nothing "guaranteed" that the Vikings are better than the Bears in 2010.  In fact, I'm not sure the VIkings with Brett Favre are the apparent favorites to win the NFC North in 2010 as the Packers with their consistent offense and well-coached defense would be my preseason favorites at this point.

I think the Vikings are at the "closing" of their Superbowl window and need to address several different areas; including QB in 2011...

 

... That too was a concern for the Bears in 2008 and puts another "year" on a team that is primed to win now.

Comment 38 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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Good observations

The similarities are definitely there between the two teams. I am not nearly as worried about the Vikings this year as I was last year, although IMO they are still the better team (that hurt to type) the gap has closed a bit.

A major factor that will determine the Bears and the Vikes success will be how well their respective QBs remain upright—a very simple concept but both are prone to make poor decisions under pressure. Favre has been indestructrable, but father time catches up to us all eventually and his o-line play will ultimately determine whether or not the Vikes are contenders again.

by HasClothesLikeaDickhead on Aug 27, 2010 2:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks!

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Aug 30, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice job

Rec’d

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.

by JoeCB1991 on Aug 27, 2010 10:26 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Aug 30, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting points

The effectiveness of the Vikings WR’s greatly rests on the play of Brett Favre. Without him their offense has never been anything too deadly and never will be, that said also in consideration that Chester Taylor won’t be there in the run-game anymore. Did anyone know of Visante Shiancoe or Sidney Rice before Favre came to Minnesota? I don’t think so. It’s only a matter of time before their revolving door at QB begins to spin again. Also, does anyone see any resemblance of Whinfield = Vasher?

by GriggsBriggs on Aug 28, 2010 9:32 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't like the Vikings at all but

Sidney Rice is a elite WR. He bailed Farve out several times last season by going get a balls that should have been intercepted. I think this loss is going to real hurt their start of the season.

by the yooper on Aug 28, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Vasher and Winnfield comparison?

Good observation!

I didn’t even consider those two, but you’re right! They have a lot of similarities.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Aug 30, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Impressive post

Chicago Jazz > Three Am-Egos

by chicago030 on Aug 28, 2010 9:44 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Thanks.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Aug 30, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not to defend the Vikings

But I think you might be underselling them a little. Peterson can make an offense, and Joe Webb will fit hugely into their future somewhere. They’re on the decline but I’d say they have at least one more shot at the SB before they fall to 9 to 10 wins and eventual mediocrity.

OH and I think the degeneration of their offensive line will only be accelerated with the loss of Mike Tice.

by JoCro on Aug 28, 2010 11:52 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't see Webb as much more than a Wildcat guy for now.

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan [I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].

I can't stand fair-weather/bandwagon fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad. And don't switch to whichever team wins the Super Bowl each year.

by JoeCB1991 on Aug 28, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was the Jaguars that lost Tice....

He was their TE coach/Asst head coach since 2006. Tice hasn’t been with Minnesota since 2005.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Aug 28, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Never said Peterson couldn't make this team, but...

… Tell me what was the best record the Vikings obtained in the regular season with just Peterson as their offense?

Tell me the best record any running team in the NFL obtained with just a “running offense”? (i.e.— Mike Vick and the Atlanta Falcons)

Running teams are usually no better than a .500 team (+ or – 1 game).

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Aug 30, 2010 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Vikings records with Peterson:
2007: 8-8 (Jackson)
2008: 10-6 made playoffs (Frerotte)
2009: 12-4 made playoffs (Farve)

If you were to use, for example, a 3,500 yard season as a benchmark for a QB and 1200 as a benchmark for a rusher, then in a balanced offense, the passing yards should be 3X the rushing yards.

Peterson rushed for 1760 yards in ‘08 (yes 16 games in ’08 vs. Frerotte’s 11 games, 196 yards per game, 3136 if projected to 16 games).

My point here is that Peterson’s rushing yards were more than half of Frerotte’s (projected) passing yards. Using my “benchmark” above I would consider that very unbalanced, yet this was a playoff team.

Here is a list of NFL All-Time Rushing Leaders. Yes, there are a lot of players here that were in balanced offenses. There are also a lot of playoff teams, too, and Super Bowl teams.

I thought this was interesting as well.

"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson; "More bell cow" - Lovie Smith

by Pete Dixon on Aug 31, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

You missed the point

Peterson in 2008 was the only offense for the Vikings and they went 8-8 (as you suggested). In 2009, they went to a more aerial attack and Peterson’s carries and numbers were decreased. Combine that with taking “Run first!” Jackson out of the equation and you see a significant change in philosophy from the ’07 team to the ’08 team (a difference of 300+ yds). You then can see that the Vikings shifted philosophy by going “all out” to acquire Brett Favre in 2009 which dropped the number of yds rushed by almost 600 yds.

Again, the Falcons under Vick and their two RBs of Warrick Dunn and T.J. Duckett which led the league in rushing 3 out of 6 years, had a 6-season record of 40-40 with two playoff appearances that resulted in 2nd rd defeats by teams with ability to stop the run and pass the ball.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 1, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you for clarifying. Just unclear on how you were tying those statements.

Your original post concerned the Vikings and then you audibled out to some Vick.

In 2008 Peterson rushed for 1760 yards and the Vikings went 10-6 (I think that was a typo in your post).

I tried to illustrate the “imbalance” between his rushing yards and Frerotte’s passing yards. I think we would agree that this was a “run heavy” team. As no team could ever be a “one man” team, your statement that a “just Peterson as their offense” I presume to mean relying heavily on him, which they did, and they made the playoffs.

When Favre came aboard last year, yes, the offense became more balanced and they had a better record. No debate. Interestingly, Peterson’s attempts dropped as did his YPC by .4. One might conclude that after his 2008 year that teams would scheme to stop the rush yet having Favre as QB might dictate otherwise. Ironically, they rushed Peterson less and he was less productive. Go figure.

Therefore,

Tell me what was the best record the Vikings obtained in the regular season with just Peterson as their offense?

My answer is 2008: 10-6 which generally gets you in the playoffs, and NFC North Title, at least that year. A balanced attack the next year got them straight to a Conference Playoff game and bypassed the Wild Card Round.

I included a link to the NFL All-Time rushers because many of those players played on very successful teams (balanced or otherwise) and were primarily responsible for the success of those teams. However, you will be hard pressed to find any leading rusher that won a ring the same year. I am actually agreeing with you…to an extent. How many rings does Dan Marino have? Dan Fouts? A quick review of Super Bowl winners reveals mostly balanced offenses and VERY GOOD DEFENSES. They are not mutually exclusive. Very good all-around teams win championships with few exceptions.

I understand what you are saying about Vick and his Falcon’s teams, but as no offense is exclusively a rushing or passing team, I can only presume you mean an offense who has a QB that is equally a threat with his arm or legs. Randall Cunningham and Warren Moon come to mind and both played on some excellent teams, not to mention that they were difficult for defenses to scheme against. Oh, and neither has a ring.

I also included the article about a “return to the ground game” because I thought it might interest you, given your statements.

"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson; "More bell cow" - Lovie Smith

by Pete Dixon on Sep 1, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good stuff!

I’ll take a read.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 2, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bears/Vikings Comparison

I can see a lot of similarities there too. I think this is finally the year we see Favre’s skills slip a little and I think GB may overtake them this year. Couple things I noticed that are important from my perspective:

1. Backup RB unproven (no C. Taylor anymore, who shares time w/Peterson)
2. #1 WR out for a while (Favre’s go-to guy)

If anything, I think those two things bring them down a notch…and we beat them on MNF last year w/ Favre, so I think that’s where we can sneak up on them. They’re still a very talented team, but I think they lost a lot and it will catch up w/them this year.

by walterfan34 on Aug 28, 2010 3:01 PM CDT reply actions  

and nice write up..

"He is remarkably bright", a "terrific talent", the sky is the limit for Cutler"

-Mike Martz-

by tfrabotta on Aug 28, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

Good comment!

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Aug 30, 2010 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

this should be green.........

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Aug 28, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is now.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Aug 29, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting post

I think that Favre is the difference-maker for the Vikings on offense – and Jared Allen on defense. That’s the biggest difference between us and Minnesota. After our Super Bowl run, we didn’t really have a “game-changer” on either side of the ball – with the exception of Hester on special teams. If Favre and Allen can have big years again this year, I think that the Vikings will be right there with Green Bay.

by JimmyMack on Aug 28, 2010 6:25 PM CDT reply actions  

The 2010 Bears might be the 2007-2009 Bears

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 29, 2010 9:06 AM CDT reply actions  

+1000

"He is remarkably bright", a "terrific talent", the sky is the limit for Cutler"

-Mike Martz-

by tfrabotta on Aug 29, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

i would take 2008

over what we have seen so far this year.

then again i like watching this new offense even if it has a bunch of mistakes. anything different than the turners and shoops etc. of the nfl

by reefermadness3 on Sep 1, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I fear you may be selling Our Beloved Bears a bit high.........

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Aug 30, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yhea

I’m really concerned that we might end up tied for 3rd in the division, at best.

by Virto on Aug 30, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

im concerned

we might be under the lions in dead last :/
i have this nagging feeling in my gut that cutler is going to end up hurt on the turf because of our shitty oline performance from the preseason…cutler cant get sacked 5 times in every game and survive.

Bear down Chicago

by tomh115 on Sep 5, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

They might be worse!

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Aug 30, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

excellent and informative

Well written, clear, concise – not too heavy on useless stats, contains just enough to back up the argument, and has sound reasoning. Great read, ChicagoMarine.

"Stay thirsty, my friend."

by Maelvampyre on Aug 29, 2010 2:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks!

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Aug 30, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

All true.

Good original writing, btw.

Last year in the playoffs, I was rooting for the Vikes because: 1) The Bears were out 2) I live in Minnesota, and wanted good things for my poor longsuffering friends and coworkers 3) I thought if they won a SB, Favre finally WOULD hang it up, and 4), I thought a Favre/Manning matchup in a SB would be outstanding entertainment.

But in that OT loss to the Saints, I could see that the Vikes would come back this season determined to make it all the way this time, but sadly (mostly for the types of reasons you ChicagoMarine cites), in football as in so many things, “You can never truly go back home.”

It’s not just having the same team members and coaches. Where those players are in their fitness and mentality is important, schedule is important, momentum, etc etc.

Again, I’d rather see Vikes top the NFC North than the Pack (yes, I’m not holding my breath for the Bears this year), but I don’t think it’s gonna happen.

"What I’m trying to say is that Lovie is an idiot. Let’s not forget this." --celerysalt, WCG commenter

by juperee on Sep 1, 2010 4:06 PM CDT reply actions  

"and 4), I thought a Favre/Manning matchup in a SB would be outstanding entertainment."

Oh, it would have been royally entertaining watching Jim Nance and Phil Simms and the rest of the CBS crew’s, along with the blathering idiots at ESPN’s heads explode When they try to figure out how to fit 22 hours of Peyton Manning Coverage and 24 hours of Brett Favre coverage into the same day………

That definitely would have made for a fine day…….

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 2, 2010 6:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I wasn't really thinking about the collateral coverage, just the game.

But the storylines leading up to the game would have been fairly nauseating indeed.

"What I’m trying to say is that Lovie is an idiot. Let’s not forget this." --celerysalt, WCG commenter

by juperee on Sep 2, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

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