WCG Match-Up Post: Grades and Reviews
The Bears defense didn't put together an all around good performance, as their defensive line stepped up to the challenge, but the secondary didn't do a good job erasing the concerns the fans and media has of them. Harris had what he describes as one of the worst games of his career last Saturday. Harris' play was so poor last Saturday that it sparked an idea from Jeff Dickerson where he blogged that Wright and Manning might be the better safety combination that Lovie can put together. I'm not quick to give up on Harris, and with him being a veteran I expect him to not have many games like that during the season. Fans should expect a much improved defense come week 1 against the Lions.
Left End Israel Idonije: Grade C
Idonjie ended up getting the start in place of Anderson last Saturday. Izzy was solid against the run, but was quite invisible during passing situations. I am guessing that the Bears will use Izzy on obviously running situations, and leave Anderson as a pass specialist. The Bears need a DE opposite Peppers that can quickly get to quarterbacks and who has quick releases; other than Peppers, Anderson fits the bill.
Nose Tackles Anthony Adams/Matt Toenia: Grade B+
Anthony had a solid game often plugging up running lanes and occupying two linemen to get Tommie Harris in one on one situations against his guy. I would say overall, Adams and Toeaina won their match up against Reggie Wells. I honestly feel the NT position with Adams and Toeaina will be an underrated strength on that line. Both Adams and Toeaina are pretty good at run support and Toeaina has shown this preseason that he can be an effective pass rusher on passing situations.
Three Technique Tackle Tommie Harris: Grade B
Harris was impressive in run support which was shocking considering that Alan Faneca is one of the better run blocking guards in the league. Harris, along with his fellow tackles Adams and Toeaina, plugged up running lanes and at times got penetration into the Cardinals backfield. The other times Harris was too busy hand fighting with Leuti and Faneca instead of using quickness combined with his strength to get past the two.
Right End Julius Peppers: Grade A
Peppers graded out the best lineman last Saturday night (surprising huh?). Peppers' quickness and strength proved to be too much for Levi Brown to handle. Obviously his best play was the sack in the red zone where he just blew by Brown on a pure speed rush, slapping his hands away and sacking Leinart. Peppers critics who said that this guy doesn't give it his all most times are being proven wrong so far this preseason. Peppers has clearly been the best defensive player through 3 games in the preseason.
LCB Zackary Bowman: Grade C
Hard to even judge Bowman's performance as he wasn't picked on as much as I thought he was going to coming into the game. The problem I have with Bowman is that at times he plays unnecessarily far off the receiver which doesn't allow him to make a play on the ball. For example there was a 3rd down play, where Marinelli dialed up a nickel blitz with D.J. Moore. Moore and Peppers were running free at Anderson, but didn't get a hand on him. You know why they didn't? Bowman played too far off his man (Williams at that time) which allowed the Cards WR to run a hot route and get the first. If Bowman played up close to his man, he would have had the opportunity to make a play on the ball, or made Anderson hold that ball a few more seconds which would have allowed the blitz to get there. That was one of the many missed opportunities the secondary let get by them.
RCB Charles Tillman: Grade C
Tillman was getting beat like a drum by the rookie Stephen Williams and it was mainly the inside slant. The reason I won't give him or Bowman a lower grade than a C is because their struggles had more to do with the scheme if anything. In the scheme, they are told to protect the outside which leaves the defense vulnerable to the inside slant if the LB's are late or slow to cover the inside. You've got to love the Tampa 2 defense.
Nickel Back D.J. Moore: Grade B-
Moore looked like a better fit in the nickel compared to Cory Graham. He showed me last Saturday that he can be a dependable tackle, quick to cover his zone, and was an effective Blitzer whenever Marinelli dialed up a nickel blitz. I won't give him a higher grade because I wanted to see more man to man with him, as he was often in zone most times.
Free Safety Chris Harris: Grade A
I give Chris Harris an A as his play last Saturday put the A in Awful. His worst play was not even the play where he took a bad angle on Stephen Williams' touchdown, but the play where he came into the box to make a tackle on Hightower, but froze up and let Hightower run right pass him for 10 yards. You can't do that, especially against the likes of Adrian Peterson and Ryan Grant who will make you pay for a mistake like that. Chris' overall play last Saturday just further proves the point that he needs to be in the SS spot, not FS.
Strong Safety Daniel Manning: Grade A
After a rough performance against the Raiders last weekend, Manning was flying all over the field (and in a good way) this past weekend against Arizona. Run Support was there, he was effectively safety blitzing (though taking a bad angle, he made Anderson throw the ball away on the move), and in coverage he didn't allow any big plays downfield as he often met the receiver there and laid big hits. Jeff Dickerson had an interesting tweet during the game where he said he could see a scenario where Wright and Manning could be the starting safeties if not opening day then eventually during the season. With the way Harris has struggled throughout camp and preseason and Manning's performance last Saturday, it's hard to argue that.
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I really don't think anyone on the defense
deserves an A except for Harris and for the reasons you stated. Manning played better than I expected but no one should get an A for that performance. 3rd and long conversions all night long…..
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
You can make the argument for Manning, but you wouldn't give Peppers an A?
by Dominique Blanton on Aug 31, 2010 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, but no.
I’m a teacher and a coach so the whole “grading thing” is all about evaluating impact overall when compared to the best at the same position. Peppers on any other team may get an “A” but on this team A- to B+. He’s simply not enough. If he were enough he would’ve forced some incompletions or got some more sacks on 3rd and long. The defense gets a C to C- and that reflects on the entire defense regardless of position.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
Im sorry my friend...
But I have lost all confidence in Chris Harris. I think Wright and Manning would be better served as the starting safeties. Chris Harris can’t cover worth a damn. Now I see why Carolina was set to release him if they couldn’t work out a trade. I know he has a loyal following here at wcg but I have to call it like I see it.
by Dozjah on Aug 31, 2010 9:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I actually think we have something with Daniel Manning at SS.
He has the athleticism and speed to keep up with the pass catching TE of the league and he is pretty good at blitzing from that position. Once Wright comes back, Lovie will have a tough decision to make.
by Dominique Blanton on Aug 31, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you 100%
Manning has played well all preseason. Thanks for being a true fan and giving the guy some credit, because Manning rarely gets any love from the fans.
by Dozjah on Aug 31, 2010 10:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I always liked Manning athleticism, Lovie retarded his development by moving him...
at different positions each year. I think SS is the best position for him. That guy was beasting out there this past Saturday night.
by Dominique Blanton on Aug 31, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
They should have moved Tillman
to strong safety this year. They have Jennings and I like this Joshua Moore kid to take his place at right corner and leave Bowman on the left. DJ is good enough for nickel. One thing I’d like to know is….
What ever happened to Afalava???
"Most important thought, if you love someone, tell him or her, for you never know what tomorrow may have in store." ~ The Great Walter J. Payton.
Question
Why is at that Chris Harris gets a pass? He has been brutal all preseason but no one is willing to point that out. If Lovie Smith wants to save his job he benches Harris and starts Wright.
by Dozjah on Aug 31, 2010 9:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Please keep Harris in,
so we can Fire Lovie Now!!!
"Most important thought, if you love someone, tell him or her, for you never know what tomorrow may have in store." ~ The Great Walter J. Payton.
He should've been moved to safety several years ago
but they’ve never had good enough backups to replace him at corner.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
Fire Jerry Angelo, too, then!
"Most important thought, if you love someone, tell him or her, for you never know what tomorrow may have in store." ~ The Great Walter J. Payton.
So you put our best corner ....
….. with bad shoulders at a position that requires more contact ?? Bad idea all the way around . Till is a corner plain and simple .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Aug 31, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he has the coverage skills
to stay at corner any more. He still plays aggressive and he’s still good at trying to create turnovers, but I don’t think he should be a starting CB at this point in his career. His speed and hips just don’t allow him to hang with good receivers any longer.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
I agree with this
I like Peanut, but he was never a great corner, just good enough. He’s been plagued with injuries the last few years and I can easily see us drafting a CB in the 1st next year.
WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!
I agree about needing to draft a top flight corner
to go with a new top flight Defensive Tackle, a defensive end (to go across from Peppers and to replace him in a couple of years as he is 30), probably another Linebacker (especially to put behind Urlacher). That’s actually a short list but assumes Wright and Manning can be safeties, or else we need one of those too!
In all seriousness, Tillman was solid but not spectacular last year, so pre-season aside, he may be fine at the #2 spot for 1-3 more years…Either way, we need some new elite talent at the position and that is a fact.
Now if only we can get 6 1st rounders so we can shore up the defense and address that O line…
+1...
So many aging/failing talents across that defense. The big problem is that the current talent will be past that elite stage long before the Bears get enough talent to plug the gaps they already have. Maybe we can scrap the whole thing, trade every player of marginal talent and get those 6 first rounders…oh…wait…that wouldn’t help either. What a mess!
IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!
Agreed.....
The defense is quickly aging, and it’s time to get started shoring them up for the future. But how to do that, and build the offensive line with only one 7th round pick next year……….oh well, it’ll sort itself out…..
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Never fear
We will trade down early, and often…But not in that Bill Belichek way to get 2nd and 3rd rounders, more in that Angelo way to draft 7th rounders in the 3rd round…
by Brendan Hess on Sep 1, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate you.......
for telling the truth……..
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
i agree
they should move tillman back to his natural position and focused on getting help via free agency and draft. imagine peanut at fs and daniel at ss or vice versa… right now CHRIS please BEG LOVIE TO PUT YOU BACK AT SS…. i dont wanna see you lose ya job
by Tommy Ohyeah Mcduffie on Sep 3, 2010 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions
To BearsCore
They have Jennings and I like this Joshua Moore kid to take his place at right corner
Corey Graham at RCB >>>>>>> Jennings or J. Moore at RCB
Wow
Well since you guys won’t admit it I will do it for you. Chris Harris isn’t the answer at safety. There it is I said it.
by Dozjah on Aug 31, 2010 10:10 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I disagree with you here . Chris Harris is a ....
….. strong safety playing free safety . Him playing out of position is affecting his play . Move him back to his SS position and put Major in at FS and I’ll bet Harris will look much better .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Aug 31, 2010 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry......
But in the cover 2 scheme the safeties should be able to play both spots. Please stop making excuses for this guy. He has lost a step and and has been out of position all preseason. His tackling has been down right awful. So to suggest moving him to another spot is making an absolurely absurd excuse for him.
by Dozjah on Sep 1, 2010 7:28 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes and No
- we play Tampa 2, everyone uses Cover 2. #2 There is a difference in the FS and SS positions. Just because the Tampa 2’s basic definition is split the field in half and cover safeties sides, it really is not quite that easy.
I agree Harris definitely looks like he has lost a step. Both safeties need to be able to cover but the FS needs more speed and range. That is why Harris should be in the SS role, not FS. Harris is good in picking up the run and should be able to cover TEs as coverage requires of a SS. He hits hard, is good at causing turnovers and is normally known as being a good tackler. Put him in his natural spot and I think we will see a different player. Lovie leaves him as FS and we are in trouble.
We will see....
There is a reason Carolina was willing to let go of Harris cheaply and was considering cutting him. His lost step has concerned me at times. His hands were shaky all camp. He is still a veteran and a leader, but it kind of (loosely) reminds me of Mike Brown’s last season or two. He was slower, a good leadership presence, but almost a liability when more than 2 wideouts took the field.
I am not passing judgment, its pre-season, but I am concerned
Carolina's scheme changed.....
in 2009, and Harris’s skills were not suited to the change. That is why Harris struggled in ‘09. The Panthers were asking him to do things they knew were not part of his skill set. He has never been fast, and Carolina’s scheme requires both safeties to be quicker than Harris. Harris is still a good fit for the SS position in our defense. Different schemes require different personnel.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions
True that....
Though I think that seems to be the plan, with Major Wright starting at FS. You never know what to expect from those clowns, though.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
You mixed that up...
We gave up Chris Harris for nothing back in 06.
We gave up our MLB of the future for him this year.
Williams is a good player and could have been great in the Lovie-Two system.
But I agree that Harris just looks out of position at the Free and should be put back at the Strong, with Manning in for obvious passing downs (like third and 7+)
This↑
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Total hyperbole......
plain and simple. And the cover 2 does not, I repeat does not play both safeties the same. That has been our problem for years, is that Lovie doesn’t understand that SSs cannot generally play FS in the cover 2. Harris had a couple of poor play while playing out of position. This kind of crap is exactly why Chicago has so much problem bringing FAs here. Because the media and the fans turn on a player in a heartbeat, and most of the time have less than a clue about the player they turned on or what happened…..
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
No.
Harris playing FS is not an identical position to SS which he has basically played his entire career so if you think you are going to get identical production from someone who is more capable of playing one or the other then you are dreaming. Don’t get me wrong he definitely played a shit game but we didn’t primarily trade for Harris so he could be playing FS, that was suppose to be Major’s spot. His tackling has been crap, he’s been taking bad angles on plays but he’s also made some big hits. Being back at SS would hopefully correct the glaring problems in his game, we could really use veteran leadership in the secondary.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Sep 1, 2010 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions
You will lose credit rapidly if you insist on being a homer for "your" guys.
At least with me. I respect loyalty but at a certain point? We’re Bears fans right? Still think you’re one of the finer posters on this sight, but?
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
Credit=credibility...
And you misspelled blasphemy!! Prepare to be stoned! Er, I mean, if by stoned you aren’t already cause then I just have no words……
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
Err..
This went down hill from its inception. And the steamrolled. So just quit being overhyped for your guys or else I’ll continue a rambling discourse with myself. BECAUSE I CAN!!! AND ANOTHER THING…..
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
JD...
we’re trying to keep the kids OFF the drugs. Can I use this as an example!?! ;>P
IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!
I am not a crackpipe crackpot!
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
Dear Mr President.
There are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot!
by Steven Schweickert on Sep 1, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought Izzy had some good pressure as well
but he wasn’t disruptive enough for anyone to notice unless the announcers called his name. I watched 3 replays of the Cards game and thought he performed well.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Sep 1, 2010 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Izzy is decent
but not spectacular. He is a “B” to “C” player any given week, unless he blows something up on special teams. Its why we never started him before. He is a great kick blocker. He is good against the run. He is, 90% of the time, a half second too slow to get the sack. He doesn’t have “closing speed” I guess. He gets decent pressure sometimes but rarely closes the deal unless its a coverage sack/pressure sack from the other side pushing the QB into him.
That’s why the org. wants Anderson to succeed so badly.
Last thought on that: Its also part of why Alex Brown was expendable post-Peppers signing. Brown hasn’t had double digit sacks in years. His pressures stayed consistent, but he stopped “getting there”.
That's all weel and good...
but the problem is the converse. Anderson is more of a liability to the run defense than Izzy is to the pass defense. Especially because Anderson also fails to “get there”. Izzy just needs to be left alone as the starter and coached up a bit. Anderson, IMO, is simply a pass rush “specialist” who can spell the starters, i.e. he’s a back-up DE. We agree that the answer to the other (non-Peppers)DE is not currently on the Bears roster, but I contend that has more to do with the 3-tech. sucking ass (looking at you Harris). The opposing offenses simply go max protect and quick release which negates the Cover-Who? easily. So many back-ups, so few true starters. That’s the Bears problems in a nutshell.
IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!
Anderson...
Has been much better against the run, starting late last year and carrying into pre-season this year. Idonije is going on 30, its too late to coach him up to be a successful starter.
But if you look above some more, you’ll see I also acknowledged our need for a new DE, to go across from Peppers and replace him in 2-3 years…So I am not voting in confidence FOR Anderson, I am just telling you Izzy will not get 5+ sacks, even if he takes every DE snap this season. He just can’t.
by Brendan Hess on Sep 1, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Much better...
than absolutely useless, is only an improvement by comparison, not by utility. Nonetheless, I’m not saying you are wrong about Izzy, just that I would recommend that the Bears focus on Izzy as the starter and put Anderson in in situations where he’s likely to have success. In the end, using them both properly will get the most for the Bears team.
IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!
It seems that the line is getting great penetration
Plus the blitz, are successful but someone always seems to get open instantaneously. The blame fall squarely on the secondary/coverage scheme. If the receivers were not so free, the line/blitzer would have gotten lots of sacks. One of the more blatant coverage issues happened on a Manning blitz. It was timed perfectly and Manning was running free at the QB but somehow, someone was open before Manning could get the sack.
+1
We don’t press, when we do we don’t press well, our man coverage skills are miserable…
And not to “kick the dead horse”, but there is a reason our 3rd down D collapses when Urlacher is out. All of our “solid” backups (Hilly) that take his spot when is not on the field don’t have the height and speed to make those coverage plays. Its just true. Even in 07 and 08, with our D struggling, we were a top 10 3rd down defense. 2009? Miserable.
I am not saying its 100% that and only that, but we don’t have another LB who can “Cover” a wide zone in the mid-deep middle range. His tackling skills (though he isn’t a big hitter) are also amazing, and that is the “stop” we are missing on the 3rd and short passes. There is a reason Urlacher is typically a 100 tackle guy, annually.
And before anyone gets too mad at me for going there again, look at the numbers…for a LB!
2007: 123 tackles, 5 interceptions, 12 pass deflections.
2008: 93 tackles, 2 interceptions, 10 pass deflections.
2009 (Hillenmeyer, 14 starts): 90 tackles, 1 interception, 5 pass deflections.
The deflections + Interceptions go down with Brian out, meaning less broken up passes over the middle. Urlacher is quicker and a better wrap up tackler, meaning less “broken” coverage over the middle.
We don’t have the speed at LB to cover the middle and stop the 1st without him. Oakland got a bunch of 3rd down conversions on us too, but NOT by running slants all day. They did it to the outside. Just calling it like I see it.
ummm......
(Hilly) that take his spot when is not on the field don’t have the height and speed to make those coverage plays. Its just true.
Hillenmeier is 6’4" tall. Where are you getting your information from?
Urlacher is a one-of-a-kind. He isn’t replaceable. That, sir, you have absolutely correct. There is a reason the Bears are 7-16 without him in the two times he’s missed games. But, to be honest, there isn’t much you can do about that. It is rediculous to think that another player of Urlacher’s qualities will come here to back him up. Hillenmeier has done about as good as you can expect for a backup, especially in this system. The only thing that I can find issue in that is the tackling part, as H² is very good at two things. Tackling and stripping the ball. But you are absolutely correct that lossing Urlacher is a wound that festers……..
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Urlacher has him by a half inch
In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 1, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
doh!
In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 1, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
lmao!
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Hillenmeyer at 6'4" is very generous
of Bears website. The two of them standing next to each other have an obvious size and height differential, and Hillenmeyer is slower and has less vertical, worse hands, and isn’t as good a tackler. Other than that, mirror image. I am not saying its a 5" difference or anything, but you can tell “by eye” that Urlacher is taller. You can tell by watching them play Urlacher has better vertical and speed.
Hillenmeyer = liability in coverage, decent against the run.
by Brendan Hess on Sep 1, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
No, 6'4 isn't generous.....
I don’t mean to be off, but I saw the two of them at the Bears Care Gala together. H² is a legitimate 6’4" and looks it standing next to #54. Now, width-wise……..huge difference.
I do agree that he lacks the speed. But to say he’s isn’t a good tackler (and then say he is decent against the run) is untrue. Again. He’s a very good tackler, and great at stripping the ball. He is decent against the pass, but not even in the same league as ’Lach..
Nearly every LB in the league = liability in coverage when compared to #54. Hillenmeyer is a backup. And a damned good one.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
This should be green, get to it fellas.
David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/
Good lookin' buddy!
Thanks for the green fellas!
Hillenmeyer and ridiculous. See, I can spell. I'm going to bed now, lol..........
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
The problem with this management team is they actually look at guys as backups
rather than trying to find guys who can replace the starters. I agree, finding someone with Urlacher’s physical tools would be next to impossible but is Hillenmeyer (who I really like as a player) a guy built for this defensive scheme? Bottom line is Brian is 32 years old and we don’t have anyone on the squad that we are grooming as his replacement in the next couple of years.
by BearFan611 on Sep 1, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Really good comment
I feel the same, on how they (Angelo & Lovie) view back ups…
But I do think Urlacher’s replacement needs to come via a first round pick. I expect top level athletes at MLB in Chicago.
I’m completely with you on Hilly no being that guy (though he has played admirably at times)… In fact for me, he’s not even a stop gap.
You're right about the MLB position but Singletary was a 2nd rounder.
Ideally, I completely agree with you, but don’t you think over the last 2 years, once Brian reached 30, that they would have taken a 2nd or 3rd round pick (like the one they used on Garrett Wolfe) and taken a LB with physical tools that they could wait on and groom? Espeically considering his injury history the last few years. Just more frustration with this group.
That's right (Singletary)... yes
don’t you think over the last 2 years, once Brian reached 30, that they would have taken a 2nd or 3rd round pick and taken a LB with physical tools that they could wait on and groom?
They should’ve…
I would’ve… and I did in Madden ;-)
I read an article before the draft which reported that Bill Walsh had said his big regret was having passed up on Singletary, who was half an inch too short for what the 49ers’ liking. Fortunately, if there’s one position the Bears know how to draft, it’s MLB.
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
Historically, you're right
but this group hasn’t done it so far. Urlacher was drafted by Mark Hatley/Dick Jauron and Singletary by Vanisi/Finks/Ditka. If things don’t turn around when the regular season begins, it’s probably a pretty good bet that Angelo/Lovie will never get the chance.
2nd and 3rd round picks......
The Bears have used second and third round picks. But they haven’t done a very good job of it, not at all………..Instead, they have been drafting guys who were questionable, at the least, and were never going to replace Brian. Jamar Williams, Marcus Freeman and Michael Okwo (who speaking of Wolfe, was drafted exactly 1 spot behind him in the ‘07 draft. The Bears took Wolfe with the ’93rd pick and Okwo with the 94th pick, so drafting Wolfe wasn’t the problem) were all drafted in the 3rd or 4th round (Williams was the 4th rounder, and he was also the only one to make the roster) OK, Williams will make for a starting OLB eventually, but where are Freeman and Okwo, again?
Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, Marcus Harrison, Craig Steltz, Jarron Gilbert, Henry Melton, D.J. Moore. That makes 7 defensive players taken in rounds 2-4 of the last 3 drafts. 2 are out of the league, 2 have actually started games, but are not regular starters. Not exactly great selections. I say this all by itself is cause to dismiss everyone involved. And that’s not even looking at the offense.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree with you but when you look at the list
and the careers that some of them had in college, it makes me wonder even more about our coaching staff’s ability (or inability) to develop players. It just seems like you couldn’t purposely miss that often with your picks unless they weren’t being taught, coached, etc. the right way.
I agree with this, too......
I have said for years that the biggest problem this team has is coaching and development. But reaching in the higher rounds is also a problem. Okwo? Freeman (who was projected around the 6th)? Bazuin? These were called questionable at the time of the pick. Angelo has proven that while you might not be able to purposefully miss that often, he can certainly do it by accident………
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Why they haven’t had a talented rookie drafted or brought in to be groomed as a replacement is beyond me. Well beyond Lovie and Angelo’s concept grasp it appears too.
Because they flopped on the three that they spent 3rd and 4th round picks on............
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
You nailed it!
The reason I won’t give him or Bowman a lower grade than a C is because their struggles had more to do with the scheme if anything. In the scheme, they are told to protect the outside which leave the defense vulnerable to the inside slant if the LB’s are late or slow to cover the inside.
If this is not adjusted for 2010… The revamped Tommie Harris and the acquisition of the year Julius Peppers will not be able to play to full potential. I hate to say it, but it’s like they’ll be a waste of money.
Defensive problems
It’s the scheme that’s the main problem here. THey’re just not aggressive enough. You have to take the game to the other team, set the tone. I think the players want to play this way and the coaches won’t let them.
Really ??? We blitzed on 45% of ....
…. our opponets drop backs . Ya wanna know how many teams out blitzed us ??? Six ( Jets , Steelers , Browns & Cowboys are 3-4 teams so they tend to blitz more anyway ….. Bills & Cards are the only two 4-3 teams that out blitzed us ) out of 32 teams . So to say we don’t blitz enough is wrong , seems to me maybe we blitz too much for our own good . Did we blitz alot when we went to the Super Bowl ? No , we rushed 4 the majority of the time .
And really the scheme is to blame ? Wrong yet again . The Colts and the Vikings both run versions of the Tampa Two and last I checked both were fairly good at it . So scheme … Na ….. execution and coaching as our issue …. probable .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 1, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm
The Colts and the Vikings both run versions of the Tampa Two and last I checked both were fairly good at it
Last couple of years:
Colts- Freeney, Mathis, Brock
Vikings- Allen, Williams Wall
Bears- Ogun, Brown, Harris
execution and coaching as our issue
My guess is talent on the defensive line has been the major issue. Coaching and execution are partly to blame, but the Colts and Vikings have both had much better talent on their defensive lines than the Bears have.
WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!
Ogun , Brown and Harris ....
…. were talented enough to get us to a Super Bowl .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 1, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
4 seasons ago yes, they were.
Unfortunately, none were really good after that.
WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!
Ogun put up numbers ....
…. for us and the Fins , AB was a solid second fiddle to Ogun and if Tommie can ever get back to his 2006 form he was as dominate as they come . So talent ain’t the issue lack of proper development is / was .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 1, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
You mean when the coaching changed?
The defense has sucked, and sucked immediately, after Rivera left. You seem to be leaving that out of the equation. Brown, Ogun and Harris didn’t all decline immediately after the ’06 season. But the defense certainly did…….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup , yup Train . When Ron left our ....
…. attuide went with him .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 1, 2010 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I've said since the firing.....
that they fired the wrong Ron…….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 1, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
train your right
was just talking to my homies the other day about the bears then and now and one thing we all kept agreeing on is after rod left for san diego their defense got better and we looked like san diego hahahahahaha. Ron Riveira i miss you
by Tommy Ohyeah Mcduffie on Sep 3, 2010 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Rivera leaving hadn't even crossed my mind.
Him leaving has had a tremendous impact on the success of our D for sure. My point though, was that in the Tampa 2 pressure has to come from the front four. Since the SB season that pressure hasn’t been there at all, which is why we’ve been blitzing so much the last couple of years.
Brown, Ogun, and Harris didn’t all decline immediately after ‘06, but like I said none have been really good/consistent after that year, nor has our defense as a whole. Harris hasn’t really been the same since screwing his knees up and both the Colts’ and Vikings’ defensive lines have been far superior to ours the last couple of years.
WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!
I agree.....
But…….like you said, the D-Linemen themselves didn’t immediately decline after ‘06. But their impact sure did. The defense sure did. And with that, the Bears sure did. And Rivera was summarily dismissed after the ’06 season. I’d say coaching, while not the only issue, is still the main issue.
In 2005, Under R², the Bears were 1st in the league in points allowed and 2nd in the league in yardage allowed. In ’06, while still under Ron, the D placed 3rd and 5th in the same categories, respectively. How have the Bears placed since then?
’07 (with the almost identical defensive roster) 16th in points allowed and 28th in yardage allowed
’08 16 in points allowed and 21st in yardage allowed.
and ’09……..21st in points allowed and 17th in yardage allowed. Oh, and they allowed the 6th most points given up by a Chicago Defense in the Bears 90 year history and the 4th most points allowed by our squad in the 32 season since the 16 game schedule was enacted.
Funny how Ron Rivera left and the “same” defense with the same roster, for the most part, tumbled into free-fall.. The D lost it’s swagger when R² left. And nobody on the defense has been consistent since then (with the exception of Briggs)………As to Indy and Minni’s lines being far superior, the Colts and Vikings coaching has also been far superior to ours. Funny how that works………I wonder if they are connected.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 2, 2010 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions
One last point.....
Notice the decline from ’05 to ’06. If you blinked you might have. And that consistency happened even when the Bears lost Mike Brown (the Heart of the secondary, at the time) and Tommie Harris (one of the most dominant DTs in the league at the time). Again, I point to coaching. Rivera adjusted and so did the Bears D.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 2, 2010 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions
"If you blinked you might have".........missed it......
this is what happens when you delete half a post, and don’t pay close enough attention to to process……..lol!
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 2, 2010 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought you were being ironic to make an excellent point!
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
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