ESPN's NFC North Blog Post: Week 1 Lions vs Bears
In 11 days, the Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears will kick off their 2010 season at Soldier Field. There is this overlying feeling that "assuming" the Lions are the underdog is flawed logic. In fact, fans of BOTH ball clubs are starting to debate the outcome of the game now...
Along those lines, here are two relevant exchanges Kevin Seifert of ESPN had Tuesday afternoon with a couple friends on his chat blog:sam (chicago)
Thinking my Bears are going down to those Lions in week #1. Can't believe I'm saying the kid [Matthew] Stafford is better than [Jay] Cutler.
Kevin Seifert (2:22 PM)
I think that's going to be a really interesting game. I'm not sure if I put Stafford ahead of Cutler, but I could see the Lions going into Soldier Field and stealing one.
Joe (Lincoln Park, MI)
Is it really an upset if the Lions beat the Bears week 1? I know it's @ Soldier Field, but the Bears aren't exactly a much better team than the Lions, even if they won a few more games last season.
Kevin Seifert (2:27 PM)
I'm sure the Bears will be favored in Vegas, and the truth is that the Lions' defense is in as much in chaos as the Bears offense. This could be one of those 41-38 type of games.
Perhaps it's just Week 1 excitement, but I can't remember this kind of anticipation for a Lions-Bears game since Roy Wiliams called out the 2006 Bears and said they "would get a victory in Solider Field."
Bears fans take solace in the fact that it's the Lions and they are a rebuilding team. Lions fans take heart in the fact that the Bears have looked bad this preseason (I can't blame them).
Here's the question: Should Lions fans believe that they can beat a Bears team that appears to be struggling and out of tune after almost 3 months of offseason workouts?
They'll be plenty more to say about this game, but it's clear the juices are already flowing.
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Yes.
Of course they should. Why would you go into any week going, “oh, we have no shot?” If you’re going to do that, don’t bother watching the games, because you’ve already magically predicted the outcome.
I’m not trying to be harsh, nor am I saying to not be realistic. But look at a lot of teams. Something happens to Peyton Manning in the first quarter of any game, and it’s like a completely different Colts team is on the field. Same goes for a lot of others.
Sometimes teams catch an advantageous break. 2007-2008, you time travel back and tell someone in the middle of the season that the Giants will beat an undefeated Patriots team in the Super Bowl, and they likely laugh in your face.
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
So, if you saw a report on ESPN saying the Bears are underdogs would you feel they are being slighted?
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 3, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
No
ESPN makes it crystal clear on how they feel about the Bears, they obviously don’t like them, and I’d love to see them have a great year to shut all the experts at ESPN up, especially the major king of all d-bags Schlereth
What were they thinking?
by touchdown bears on Sep 4, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree about why we shouldn't go into any week thinking we have no shot...
… now please say that to him.
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
Editor/Writer for WindyCityGridiron.com
Bears win 37 - 17
You can take it to the bank!
In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 3, 2010 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm one of the few
That doesn’t want to underestimate the lions. They aren’t very good but still can’t underestimate any team.
"Boozer's dumbass dunked, so i dunked on his dumbass"- Joakim Noah
The Lions have always played us tough...
Even when they were horrific, somehow they made it close. Maybe it’s the whole “playing down to their level” thing. But, the Bears really need to NOT do that anymore.
They can beat us
and they think they can, that’s all the need imo.
"Boozer's dumbass dunked, so i dunked on his dumbass"- Joakim Noah
If the Lions DO win in week 1, is that an upset?
Or is it a “any given Sunday” type of thing.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 3, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I tell you what....
The Bears Offense better have a good no huddle or its gonna be a long day for Cutler.
It comes down to giving Cutler time to throw the ball.
Its that simple.
I'm going to take to optimistic view...
Through all the bad play in the pre-season and hum drum over the way the team has looked, there’s one factor to keep in mind… The Bears are coming off a 2 game win steak at the end of last year and one of those teams they beat is this Detroit team.
This game, along with this season, can very well go in a way other than what a lot of us expect. Maybe just maybe, we beat this team handily. We beat them twice last season and even though both teams have added pieces, I’m having a hard time viewing Detroit as this great upstart that so many others do. Now of course Stafford could throw for 350 yards and 3 TDs and Javid Best could have his coming out party but let’s stay positive.
There is a solid possibility that this team could beat the Lions week one and go into Dallas and pull off an upset. Then we’d have a whole new outlook on this team and this season.
Yeah but it worked!
Jahvid Best is gonna kick some butt this year.
And yeah, no underestimating the Lions. Or anyone this year. It’s all about who executes and the preseason gave us no reason to overlook anyone.
What about the Cowboys
i mean we should not over look the lions but the Cowboys are who have me scared.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war minus the shooting." - George Orwell
Cowboys looked like a big steaming pile in pre-season games, as well. Especially Romo.
and the offense. And I don’t mean like-the-‘06-Bears-looked-in-the-pre-season-bad. I’m talking like-the-’01-Bears-looked-in-the-pre-season-bad……..
I’ve watched two of their games (my buddy is a ’girls fan) and after hearing all of the Cowboys are going to the SB talk, I was really shocked at what I saw. So were the announcers.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 4, 2010 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm curious about the one statement in Seifert's blog...
“Can’t believe I’m saying the kid [Matthew] Stafford is better than Jay Cutler.”
I’m not saying he is currently a better QB, but why would anyone necessarily be surprised about that? Wasn’t Stafford the number one overall pick in the draft? I’m not sure where some Bear fans get this idea that Cutler is, without question, the most talented QB to ever play the position. He is talented, yes, but still, in most experts opinions, unproven. He’s only a couple of years older than Stafford so, if you go “by the book”, Stafford should be the better, or at least equal, QB at some point. If he gets the Lions to a similar record as the Bears this season, you could make the argument that he is the better QB now.
team record means little......
Kyle Orton got the Bears to 10-5 in ‘05. Stafford’s performance will mean a lot more than his record, and I have a feeling it will be pretty good this season. Not Drew Brees good, but abou twhere you would expect a good 2nd year QB to be.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 4, 2010 4:52 AM CDT up reply actions
So, I'm a little confused....
are you agreeing with me overall? My point was too many Bear fans just assume that Cutler is the more talented QB no matter who he’s compared with and I’m saying that when you’re talking about a first overall draft pick with great tools, the record of the two teams can definitely be used to measure them. I agree that the record of any team never relies on one player but when you have a team like the Lions who are the consensus last place pick in the division, if they have a similar or better record than the Bears, who are supposedly more talented, then the argument about who is the better QB can be made. This is assuming that both players remain relatively healthy and put up respectable numbers.
Let’s face it, Jay has not come onto any team and improved their record and, hypothetically, if Stafford gets the Lions to 8-8 two years removed from the worst season in history, I’d have to go with him as the better QB.
It’s all speculation at this point and, hopefully Jay will turn out to be what we all hope but I’m not going to blindly say he’s the better QB right now. They both have to prove something.
I wasn't
agreeing or disagreeing with you on Cutler. I’m disagreeing with you on Stafford. That team has made a lot of great strides. While Stafford will help the offense, the defense was the single biggest reason the Lions have won only 2 games in the last 2 years. While the offense has been bad for the past 2 years, the Defense has been ranked 32nd in the league in points allowed and in yards allowed the past three season in a row, haven’t been ranked higher than 28th since 2005, and haven’t ranked higher than 20th in both since ’00.
You’re talking about a team that has allowed 1011 points in the last 2 seasons. By contrast, our bad defense has allowed 735 points in the same span, and those seasons were the 7th and 4th worst scoring allowed efforts in the Bears 90 seasons of play.
The Lions have allowed an average of 411 points a season (25.7 points per game) over the past decade. They have allowed less than 300 points only 4 times since the 16-game-era began. That 4 out of 32 seasons while allowing over 400 points 7 times in the same period (5 of which were in the last decade). The only time the Lions have allowed under 200 points was in the strike-shorted 1982 season when they gave up 176 points in 9 games.
Compare that to the Bears, who averaged 314 points per season (19.7 points per game) over the past decade (and that’s while putting up the 2nd, 6th, 10th, 11th, 12, 13th and 18th worst defensive seasons in Bears history in that time frame. The Bears have allowed 400 points once (in ‘97), have allowed fewer than 300 points 15 times in the 16-game-era, and have allowed less than 200 3 times (’82 strike season, ’85 and ’86)
Detroit’s record over the last 10 years? 42 and 118. Chicago’s? 81 and 79. But, I can already hear some typing in reply that offense’s have something to say about wins and losses, too. And you’re right. But here’s where it get interesting. Detroit’s offenses were nothing special, recording an average of 18 points per game while Chicago recorded all of 19. A whopping point difference between the two. Detroit’s offense has been consistently bad, while Chicago has had short but high peaks surrounded by wide and very deep valleys. Effectively 2008 and 2006 are the only things keeping Chicago higher in the average. Without those years, Chicago averaged 17.7 points per game to Detroit’s 18.3. So Chicago and Detroit have both had amongst the worst offenses in the league over the past decade, yet Chicago (.506) has almost double the winning percentage of Detroit (.263).
All of that just to say that the Lions can still improve if Stafford is just a adequate game manager ala Kyle Oton in 2005, and They can still suck even if Stafford is the next big thing, much like Peyton Manning in ’01, Ken Anderson in ’79 or Dan Fouts in ’86 to name a few…..
I’m saying that the Lions record can definitely improve with great play by Stafford, but Stafford can play great and the Lions could still win 1 game if the Defense continues it’s trend. And Stafford could suck ass, but if that defense steps up, they could carry the team like the ’05 Bears (or the ’93 Bears if you prefer, who had the #3 defense, but the 24th ranked offense and finished 7-9).
On Jay, I agree with you, actually. I like Jay (a lot, but then I liked Rex, too), but he hasn’t proven anything other than that he has a huge arm. Hell, the Bears scored 3 more points per game with Orton than they did with Cutler. I’m in “show me” mode with QBs ever since Rex…………….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 4, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Okay, got it.
I get aggravated sometimes with this blind admiration of Cutler when he still hasn’t proven anything. Like you, I think he’s very talented but until he proves he can win and not just put up fantasy stats, I’m in the wait and see mode as well.
I agree completely.........
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 4, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
"and those seasons were the 7th and 4th worst scoring allowed efforts in the Bears 90 seasons of play"
should be 6th and 11th over that span. Was the 4th and 7th worst defensive efforts since 16 games became the norm…….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 4, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Well to be fair...
Until Matthew Stafford proves he can throw more touchdowns than picks and stay healthy for a whole season, I don’t think we should assume, guesstimate, or even project that he’s as good a Jay Cutler.
Look I know Jay hasn’t got a team to the playoffs yet and I know he had a rough season last year, but the guy has been productive in the league and his career to this point with INTs included, can rival some of the game’s best ever. Also to be honest, considering how much wrong was wrong with this team last year, Cutler’s season could have been a lot worse.
Look I like Stafford and I think he’s going to be pretty good, but I think we’re too quick to assume how good guys are going to be at the expense of other QBs that have actually done something. It’s like the overwhelming love Matt Ryan gets. Yes he’s a good QB but no where near the hype and presumed greatness that he receives. Ditto with Sanchez. Matt Stafford has one of the most comforting security blankets in the league in Calvin Johnson and a good running game, so he SHOULD get better. I’d at least like to see him have one season as good as one of Cutler’s before putting them on the same level.
Yeah but it worked!
I didn't say he was as good now...
only that the comment the person made sounded like he would be totally surprised about Stafford possibly being better than Cutler. My point is that Stafford’s potential, being the first overall pick, is every bit as good if not better than Jay’s. I also think your comments about Cutler’s productivity are overly kind and are exactly what I’m talking about with Bear fans making Cutler out to be the best ever. He had one excellent, stat year with Denver and two decent years even though he came to a playoff team and never brought them back again. You talk about Stafford’s security blanket, what do you call Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal? And don’t forget, Stafford came to, arguably, the worst football team in the history of the NFL.
I am amazed that Cutler always seems to be the only QB who makes his WR’s better but other QB’s are only good because they have great receivers. How does that happen?
You say he only had one "excellent stat year" and "two decent years"
Hell I’m still trying to find Cutler’s 13 TD 20INT…“but don’t worry he’s got the skills to be a great QB” rookie year. Because see that’s the difference between he and the Stafford’s of the world… he never had one of those years, and that’s the reason why at this point of his career he’s comparable to others great QBs at the same point in their careers. Hell one of Jay’s “decent years”, his first full season as a starting QB, is something that Stafford should aspire to this year, let alone the Pro Bowl season Jay had.
I’m not being overly kind about Jay, I’m just being honest. I think it’s easy right now for people to take shots at Cutler and say silly stuff like “Stafford is the better QB” like that article said. But go check the stats. Then go compare them to Brett Farve, Warren Moon, John Elway, and Jim Kelly at the same point in their careers. Hell even Dan Marino had some high TD/High INT seasons his first few years in.
If we can give room to those QB’s and guys like Stafford to learn to play at the pro level and become successful, why are we so quick to knock Cutler despite the fact that it was his first bad year as a QB in the league, along with all the other factors (new team, new offense, etc..) Do I think Cutler is as good as say Aaron Rogers? No. But I do think he’s in the elite class and doesn’t deserve to get lumped in with a guy who threw for 2,300 yards, 13TDS and 20 INTs last year.
One more thing, I know Jay had Marshall and Royal (what did Royal do last year?) in Denver but let’s not forget that Jay did go out and throw 27 TDs and 3600 yards with guys who weren’t even in the league the year prior (Bennet, Aromashadu,Knox) and a kick returner. So it’s kind of hard to say he didn’t make his receivers better because by default he did.
Yeah but it worked!
Thanks for validating my original point
you can introduce Cutler when he enters the HOF.
Let me know when you learn to read.
Was being an smart ass necessary?
Guess so…
Yeah but it worked!
You're right, I did take a cheap shot and shouldn't have, so I owe you one for that
but you were going down the exact path that T-Train and I were talking about regarding this blind loyalty to Cutler. Nowhere in either of our posts did we criticize or trash Jay, in fact we went out of our way to say how much we loved his potential.
In no way did I ever knock Cutler. Saying he had 2 decent seasons and one outstanding season from a stats perspective isn’t exactly trying to run him out of town on a rail.
I disagree that he is in an elite class, yet. Making one Pro Bowl as the third QB chosen doesn’t make you elite. He certainly has that potential but has to show it on a regular basis. You also have to remember that Jay, unlike many of the QB HOF’ers you mentioned was never on a really terrible team. When those guys were drafted, most of those teams were at the bottom of the NFL pile. Jay came into a Bronco’s team that made the playoffs with Jake Plummer and thought they’d get him to take that next step so his numbers should have been okay. You can go down the list of one trick ponies who have made it to the Pro Bowl one time in their career and you never heard of them again. I’m not saying Jay is going to be one of those but until he earns a multiple Pro Bowl consideration you can’t, in my opinion, call him elite at this point.
Bottom line is, I’d like to see all Bear fans be optimistic AND realistic with this QB and this team. I’m as much a homer as anyone but I can be objective enough to enjoy and give credit to players from other teams that show some ability. On the other side of the coin, I will recognize when our own players are not doing the job and, so far, Cutler is not the player we all hoped he would be. Before you or anyone goes off on look what he’s had to work with (receivers and Ron Turner), when we signed Jay after we had a 9-7 record with Kyle Orton who, had he not injured his ankle, probably would have won us one more game, would anyone have bet that with essentially the same cast of characters we would have actually gone backwards? I’m not saying all of that was Cutler’s fault but had we improved to 10-6, I guarantee most people would have sworn up and down the improvement was solely due to Jay. You can’t have it both ways.

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