The Bears' Jerry's Kids: Where MDA stands for "Major Draft Atrocities"
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 12:15 AM CDT
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PrintSo today the Bears released Jarron Gilbert and Jaquin Iglesias, who just happen to be the Bears top two picks from last year's draft. This got me to thinking: Is this finally enough for the McCaskeys to see that Angelo needs a good dismissing?
Now, Angelo hasn't been all bad.
His drafts have given us Alex Brown, Lance Briggs, Charles Tillman, Tommie Harris, Tank Johnson, Bernard Berrian, Chris Harris, Kyle Orton, Devin Hester, Greg Olsen, Matt Forte, Chris Williams and Johnny Knox. And he can hardly be blamed for less than great results from Marc Colombo, Mike Gandy, Rex Grossman, Ced Benson, Danieal Manning and Nate Vasher. Injury and or development/musical positioning had a lot more to do with that. But lets take a look at some of his biggest personnel mistakes. We'll focus mostly on his drafting flubs, but we'll hit on some of his other problems, as well........
Jerry has somehow earned a reputation as a decent GM. He was voted the 8th Best GM in all of pro sports in 2007 by Forbes.com. He has had some success, to be sure. The players listed above, for starters, along with FA aquisions like Ruben Brown, Thomas Jones, John Tait, Roberto Garza, Anthony Adams, Adewale Ogunleye, Julius Peppers and Jay Cutler.
But.......lets note ignore the major mistakes. He's made some bone-headed decisions involving veteran players and draft picks, as well. Here's my favorite. After the Super Loss, Angelo decided that Thomas Jones was a luxury. He traded Jones, and their second round pick (63rd pick) of the draft to the Jets for their 2nd round choice (37th pick). Not a great trade, in my book. But it get worse......Angelo then traded the 37th pick he just aquired from the Jets to San Diego for their second round pick (62nd pick) and their 3rd round pick (93rd). With those picks, the Bears took Dan Bazuin and Garrett Wolfe. So, if you are following along, the Bears traded Thomas Jones and a second round pick for Dan Bazuin and Garrett Wolfe. Ugh.......
Angelo has not enjoyed much success in the upper rounds of the draft (which is maybe why he trades down so much). Jerry has drafted 28 players in the first three rounds of the draft over the past nine years. Here are some of the Lowlights..........
Roosevelt Williams 3rd round 2002: Only recordable stat was a funmble recovery for 47 yards in his two years in the league. Bust.
Michael Haynes 1st Round 2003: recorded 5 tackles and 1 INT for a 47 yard TD in three years. Was out of the league by 2007. Bust.
Mark Bradley 2nd round 2005: Less than 1000 over 4 NFL season with the Bears and Chiefs. Plagued by injuries. Out of the league at the end of '09.
Chris Williams 1st round 2008: The jury is still out on Williams, but that doesn't excuse Angelo from spending the 16th overall pick on a guy with a known back problem that couldn't contribute his rookie year.
Dusty Dvoracek 3rd round 2006: Ah, where to start with Dusty. Jerry drafted Dusty dispite an injury history and an anger management/character problem. Dusty spent all 4 years on injured reserve. He did make the field a few times, and played well when he was on. but the injuries were too much, and he now plays for the Omaha Nighthawks of the UFL.
Michael Okwo 3rd round 2007: Michael was taken as a possible replacement for Briggs when the whole contract dispute thinng that led to the whole franchise tag thing was happening. Thank god Lance got what he wanted, because Okwo sucked. He didn't make it past traingin camp, and never played a down in the league. Bust.......
Dan Bazuin 2nd round 2007: Oh, Danny Boy....wait, who? Part of the infamous TJ trade, Bazuin was taken too high, and never saw the field after consecutive knee injuries put him on IR two years in a row, Outta the league after '08 training camp.......Huge Bust.....
Some other head scratchers........
Garrett Wolfe 3rd round 2007: I like Garrett, and he would have been a decent pickup in the late rounds. But this is the guy that the Bears effectively traded Thomas Jones for.........hmmmm.
Matt Forte 2nd round 2008: (this will piss some people off, but please hear me out. I'm not calling Forte bad) I'm not going to say that Forte was a bad pick, but.......combined with Williams, had the Bears chosen wisely they could have taken Chris Johnson in Williams spot and and John Greco with the 2nd rounder. Or, the Bears could have selected Jeff Otah in the 1st and Ray Rice in the second. Now I'm not saying that Forte isn't a quality player, because he is. But if the Bears were going to take a guy in the first round that wasn't going to contribute in the first year, then why not take the RB the Bears needed in the first instead and grab up a OT in the second? Imagine Chris Johnson as a Bear...........
And none of this even touchs the many failures drafted in the the 4th round and beyond. A laundry list of picks made up of guys who never saw the roster.....or shouldn't have. For every Johnny Knox, Chris Harris or Adrian Peterson there are a handful of Macus Monks, Claude Harriotts, Rodriques Wilsons, Aaron Brants and Derek Kinders, released before the first season even starts and never heard from again.
So, has Angelo failed enough yet? You decide. Coming soon: Jerry's Kids Poor Personnel Moves Edition.......
hat tips to ifuwannacrownem and Mathias-K for editing and research catches. Thank You.
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Your reaching with the Forte point imo, I still think its a good pick, I don't like using 1st round picks on RBs except for an AP type
But then again I did not like the Williams draft pick, an offensive linemen with back problems still in college is a red flag.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Train just does not like Forte
if he gets a chance to take a shot at him, he will
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Yikes
Must be personal or something. I would think it would be a tall task to even find a small number of Bears fans not happy with the drafting of/play of Matt Forte.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Me three
He’s average, actually worse than average based on his stats from his first two seasons. For being a power runner he can’t break a tackle to save his life, and needs like ten yards before reaching top-speed.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
He does other things well and has a lot of heart, but as a runner I’m beginning to have some doubts about him – and first and foremost, his job has to be to run the ball. Hopefully the playcalling and run-blocking will have me eating my words after a few games.
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
Actually has nothing to do with Forte.....
has to do with drafting. I really like Forte be the most improved Bears this season. But you don’t think that Chris Johnson or Ray rice would have been better picks? If that’s the case, then you can quit pretending that I’m the one who’s not objective…….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Ding ding...
A fully healthy Chris Williams might very well have been worth a 1st rounder. A Chris Williams with back issues in a position where, ahem, you need a good back? That’s a mistake you let someone else make.
I get what you’re saying, Angelo wasted a high pick on a (at-the-time, though time will tell) worthless player. But that doesn’t have much to do with the Forte pick – neither prevented the other. And we have no idea if Rice or CJ would have been as productive here with our team. But, let’s have a little fun and I’ll try to help your point.
Here’s Player A’s credentials.
2007 All-American (Rivals)
2× First-team All-Big East (2006, 2007)
Doak Walker Award finalist (2007)
2× Maxwell Award finalist (2006, 2007)
Sporting News Freshman All-American (2005)
And here’s Player B.
Conference USA All-Freshman (2004)
2× All-Conference USA (2005, 2007)
Third-team AP All-American (2007)
Doak Walker Award semifinalist (2007)
Maxwell Award semifinalist (2007)
Senior Bowl MVP (2008)
Obviously, Player A is Rice and Player B is Forte. You’d think Rice’s resume makes him the 44th pick and not the 55th, if Forte even gets taken in the second.
by Steven Schweickert on Sep 5, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Forte was definitely a second round pick, either way.
Don’t get me wrong. But I think that, knowing they wanted a OL and an RB in the first two pick (they did mention interest in Darren McFadden, remember) why did they take an injured OL with soem very good RB prospects availabble in the first. Why reach on a OL that wasn’t going to contribute right away? There was a mini-run on RBs after the Williams pick, with 4 of the top RBs coming off the boards through the rest of the first round, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall and Chris Johnson.
My question is “If the Bears weren’t confident enough in the immediate OL prospects *(and they must not have been) why not take a RB, and leave the OL for the second round (or the 7th)?”
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 6, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Comparing the two resumes
Rice’s is probably another half-round or round ahead of Forte, IMO, so maybe Low-2 or High-3.
I totally agree that they shouldn’t have taken that chance when they could have addressed a need that would have helped right friggen’ now.
To answer ya… I think it’s cause they felt they HAD to make that first rounder a lineman. Not that they weren’t confident enough in them, but combine positional need with “oooh injured player with first-round ability” and, well, you get Williams. I think we both woulda taken someone who could actually play or one of the RBs that year instead of someone having back surgery two weeks later.
They didn’t need to reach, like you already said Otah was right there. So under A (they weren’t sold on the immediate OL prospects), they wanted someone who could help possibly this year and definitely next year and they HAD to make that first pick an O-Lineman, or B, Williams was their guy come hell or high water.
Sad to say, I think we’re reaching a spot where “We have to get the quarterback offensive linemen’s positions stabilized. We’re fixated on that.”
by Steven Schweickert on Sep 6, 2010 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Well last time he took a RB in the draft in 05 it didn't work out quite like they had hoped I would guess
I remember 2 years ago they needed a T so bad it wasn’t funny. We see a run on OTs every year in the first round that was not something they could gamble with at the time and leave it for the second round imo. I just wish they some how ended up with Baker as their tackle.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
The one thing you can refer back to that will tell you all you have to know about Angelo's inabilities as a GM
was the statement just before he went after Cutler. “It all begins and ends with the QB, if you’re strong there everything else will take care of itself”. Talk to any football person from a Pop Warner coach to a good GM in the NFL and they will tell you that you build in the trenches. I don’t care if you have the second coming of Petyon Manniing, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas rolled into one, they would have no success without an O-line to protect them.
I’ll admit, I used to be something of an Angelo fan but when he got up and made that statement, I knew he sucked. I think the combination of his poor choices and Lovie’s inability to do anything right will doom this franchise for years to come.
That’s a mistake you let someone else make.
31 other draft-day decisionmakers did let someone else make that mistake >_<
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
by Spongie on Sep 6, 2010 4:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What he said↑
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 6, 2010 4:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm with the 31.....
While we chose 14th, the 13 teams in front didn’t pick Williams, and the 18 teams behind us didn’t trade up to take him…….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 6, 2010 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Eh, technicalities technicalities
(dismissive wave)
Maybe a team was comfortable taking him 18th or 19th or 20th or 21st or whatever. But technically you’re right, 31 other teams did not value him highly enough to take him higher than 14th in any way shape or form.
by Steven Schweickert on Sep 6, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Hadn’t thought of it in terms of where he was drafted. I just wanted to have a pop at Jerry… it’s like a still-legal bloodsport.
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
I like Rice a lot I watched him play just about every game at Rutgers
I like Forte also I think he will get better and better if the bears start rebuilding the line with next years draft. But after his rookie year were you wishing JA took a different back then Forte? Just curious I wasn’t part of this site how did you feel about him?
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
You do understand that hindsight does not = intelligence
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 6, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Nor does burying your head in the sand....
Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. For examples, see Jerry Angelo’s GM career……
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 6, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
You did not reply to my post
Were you unhappy the Bears took Forte after his rookie year? Were you wishing for Rice then?
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Yes...
I was unhappy with Forte from the beginning. I spent the entire ’09 offseason complaining about it and trying to point out that Fortes number were based on quantity, not quality.
You are a little late to the dance, buddy. This has been hashed and rehashed in multiple thread already. I had problems with Forte year one. He was ranked bottom of the league as a rusher in his rookie year. Yes, his totals were good, but he carried a HUGE number of times to get those. He averaged less than 4 ypc, and was among the worst in the league in yards after contact per carry. That’s not to say that I don’t think he can improve, or that he has no redeeming qualities. I like his work ethic, I like his blocking (one bad wiff in the preseason does not make him a poor blocker. he ranked 5th in the league his rookie season in pass blocking for a RB) and he is very good receiving out of the backfield.
But I have problems with his rushing style. He is very good if he can get in space. But unfortunately, the majority of the time,that isn’t going to happen on a good team, and will almost never happen with this line. I also have problems with the fact that he cannot seem to break tackles, thus the low yards after contact per carry. Now, This argument has been had before. I’m not having it again. I noted above that I didn’t call wasn’t calling Forte a bad player (and never have), but combining the injured and unable to contribute Williams with the Forte pick to point out Angelo’s poor strategic draft ability. The post was not an indictment of Forte. That’s for another thread…….
All that being said, I don’t place all of the blame on Forte. Ron “The Douche” Turner was simply terrible at play calling, developing, game-planning and pretty much anything else that you would expect a OC to be good at. The Matadors of the Midway (Our Truly Offensive Line) didn’t help Matt much, either. I think that with Martz, and his work ethic, he can be a very good RB. I personally think he can end up winning the team’s most improved player award after this season. If you take the Forte pick by itself, and ignore the rest of the circumstances surrounding it, I would say Forte was drafted right about where his potential should have landed him.And I’m rooting for him and Martz to bring that potential to the surface.
But that doesn’t mean that Ray Rice wouldn’t have been a better choice, or taking a RB in the first and a tackle in the second, since the only one they apparently wanted wasn’t going to contribute, or be developed in his rookie season.
As ‘Red said above in a round-a-bout way: Hindsight is 20/20, and that is certainly true. But ignoring the failures of Jerry Angelo because you like a certain player or two he drafted isn’t going to make his drafting ineptitude go away. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while…….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah like I said above
I was not part of the site then it was more a question then anything else. I am not a big fan of JA. I just don’t think it makes much sense to group Forte in with the rest of the moves on the page, even if you are not his biggest fan.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Really?
Not on Johnson and Greco? For a team that values speed and stocks it like meat I would consider that some great rounds. JA drafted Williams even after he knew he had a bum back so basically payed him for nothing the first year. Even with that Williams has looked average with glimpses at best. Forte, I won’t argue that I like his footwork. If he gets his feet to work with that 6’ 1" frame, he can be a good, good back but he takes too many arm hits that decrease his acceleration & momentum a bit more. He doesn’t get low to take a hit in a NFL level that players just are waiting for you to become a target to either: strip the ball or Get a second or third hit on ya. I don’t dislike both players cause they at least have put the work in to get where they are.
Pof, Pof, Pasa! Watch out for the monsters!
Lets be honest though since 2001
It could have been a lot worse all GMs have a certain number of picks picks that don’t pan out, but I will agree it seems like it has gotten worse (to me anyway) in recent years.
Last year was crap that I can’t look past. You finally get a QB that you can build around (I did like Orton), you give up a small fortune to get him but then you expect him to stay upright and protected by a weak below average O-line?Fail
Taking players like Julio and Gilbert with this O Line is the type of shit that aggravates me the most.
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
Do remember that Chris Johnson had an injury prior to the draft as well
either a foot or acl cant remember
right....
Johnson played 15 games his rookie season…….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's face it...
hindsight is always 20/20, but however, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. When HOF players (like say Warren Sapp) go out of their way to point out a GMs lack of competence, it confirms the notion that JA isn’t very good at his job. I hear too many people rant on about “draft value” and positioning, but, IMO, you have to draft for obvious need or player quality. Those who use some grading formula for a player that says you cannot draft a guard before the 3rd round are morons who cannot see the forest for the trees. I may not have drafted better than JA, but I cannot imagine I would have done worse. I have stated many times that I get the sense that JA like to “wow” people with his late round finds rather than just going after the best guys available in a given position. But the most damning evidence for JAs continued failure is the state of this Bears team. JA needs to go, but then again so does Lovie.
IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!
Good point
From a draft standpoint, instead of just going for the best player available, JA tries to get too cute. He likes to gamble on players with a history of injuries and/or other questions – thinking that he will “out-smart” everyone else and come up with a rare gem.
The reality is, JA usually ends up out-smarting himself.
Great write-up
I enjoyed it since I burn Angelo every chance I get. First round picks in team from Angelo are Olsen and Harris. Hester and manning got drafted in 06 when he traded down from the first for 2 second rounders. Who else?!?!?! If they get a chance they should offer ozzie newsome an absurd amout of money since they like wasting money on stupid shit instead of sound decisions. Do not waste money on stupid GM’s and his incredibly, idiotic signings, drafts and everything else Angelo does and spend it on a real, proven GM. C’mon Ozzie!
Pof, Pof, Pasa! Watch out for the monsters!
WAIT A DAMN MINUTE!!!
Dude if you’re gonna do a write up about the immortal one, Mark Bradley, please get it down right. Angelo never re-signed him or attempted to. He was granted his release by the Bears before the trade deadline of the ’08 season and signed immediately by the Chiefs, who cut him at the conclusion of the ’09 regular season. he had short stops in Tampa in New Orleans.
You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes.
by ifuwannacrownem on Sep 5, 2010 10:51 AM CDT reply actions
You sir.....
are correct. Thanks for the pickup. The site I was looking at made it a bit confusing, listing Chicago after KC in ’08. Corrections will be made.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
No problem, my man.
It’s hard to forget the timeline process of such a waste of talent.
You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes.
by ifuwannacrownem on Sep 5, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I find it hard to put the blame of
Bazuin and Bradley squarely on Angelo, injuries happen and are largely unpredictable. I would also take this approach to considering Dvoracek and Williams, just because someone has an injury history doesn’t make them not worth drafting… AP had many injuries in college, guess the queens were dumb?
AP didn't require back surgery when he was drafted, did he?
Injury history is one thing. Injured is another. Dvoracek was another problem. He had an injury history, but he also had a history of assault and battery and anger management issues. I wouldn’t blame him for injuries, except that he tries to outsmart the system by drafting way too many injury drops in the draft. At some point, his inability to recognize that it hasn’t worked out becomes his fault, does it not?
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe?
Except the one that really stands out is Chris Williams and he is really a TBD at this point. He has had some successes too? I don’t have his draft history with scouting reports going into the draft in front of me but I know that Zackary Bowman was an injury risk and a late round pick that worked.
I am not excusing him for some terrible picks he’s made over the years. I hated the Benson pick and still don’t think he is very good, who takes a non-athletic and mildly skilled RB so high in the 1st round, really? I also can’t excuse David Terrell but I think that there are better ways to evaluate Angelo than target the misses he’s had, all GMs have misses actually all GMs have a lot of misses and a lot of GMs luck into good picks I am sure. From what I have read I am not convinced that he is a bad drafter.
You hit the problem with the Williams pick right on the head.....
but I know that Zackary Bowman was an injury risk and a late round pick that worked
Williams was a first round injury risk that was already injured an that Angelo knew wasn’t going to make an immediate impact because he knew he needed surgery. Were Williams taken in the third or fouth round, or even the second, I would be calling it a decent pick. But this was the 14th pick of the draft! Not a late rounder who was listed as an injury risk but turned out to be a starter, but a guy picked in an impact draft position thqat they knew couldn’t make an immediate impact, and that they knew would take some time to develop after that. Add to that the fact that almost every scouting report I’ve read had Williams at RT, not LT and listed him as having short arms (the shortest of all the tackles in that draft, to be exact) and you have all the makings of a guy picked too early.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget the Gaines Adams deal...
No disrespect to Gaines (RIP), but giving up a #2 for him was always a stretch. The Bears need players, no projects.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I would have to agree when Boldin isn't even going for a second
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
what made it more depressing
was the fact that the Bucs were willing to trade him for a 5th round pick.
You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes.
by ifuwannacrownem on Sep 5, 2010 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
If that’s true then – Ha! – Jerry sure outsmarted them!
…waitaminute… >_<
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
Absolutely
Angelo definately over-paid on that deal. Most people don’t realize that – the Bucs were not at all high on the kid. But here we are – more than glad to give up a high draft pick for him.
Jerry Angelo: Using the Magic 8 Ball to make selections since 2003
He’s been abysmal! And has been my number one complaint for about 5 years. In fact, I was a contributor on a blog that is no longer in existence (Jerry’s lawyers fought and bought the website) properly entitled— www.firejerryangelo.com
His track record is horrible, and until recent, his draft picks have made absolutely no sense! He reaches on picks/players, he doesn’t bring in FA to make his draft day mantra of “best available” easier, and he holds on to players longer than necessary.
I really hope that he leaves in 2011, but I can’t see that happening unless the Bears do horrible for some reason. He has a whole new staff and Lovie has a whole new list of coaches.
I see this dragging out until 2012.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
DId you at least get a JA autographed 8x10
You know for dart board purposes
by TheMan1 on Sep 5, 2010 5:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Marine......
I was a front page writer for that site. Jerry’s lawyers didn’t bring the site down, but Bears lawyers are the ones that started the avalanche that led to the site owner’s loss of will. He wasn’t even involved in the last 2 years or so of the site. He lost his resolve after the Bears Org threatened suit over copyright infringement due to the site’s design. I’m curious, what was your screen name on the site. I am always happy to meet up with former brothers-in-arms from FJA.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Tim? Is that you?
I thought that your screen name (T-Train) sounded familiar. haha!
Good to see you on here!
I joined the site towards the last few weeks and my handle was bearblue.
I’m still of the belief that Jerry is the root of all this problem and I still hold fast to the day when we can move away from this decade of bad management.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 5, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice to see a former member around.
Crazyfinggers and I were looking to reboot the site, but circumstances kept that from happening. We still keep in contact via facebook. I miss the old sight, but this is a great community, and a reasonable replacement. I still think that eventually Crazy and I will start up another non-shill fan site, though I don’t know when.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Clarification....
Didn’t mean to imply that this is a shill site. It obviously isn’t. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear. I love this site because the forum is very critical when it should be, and supportive when it should be, as well.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
of course not
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 6, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
About taking Chris Johnson in the first round and OL in the second round
You have to remember nobody thought Johnson was going to be this great. Nobody even saw his rookie season coming. He was labeled as a “workout warrior” so to speak, a guy that could blaze the .40 but was not ready for the rigors of the NFL. Obviously, they were wrong, and you have a point about not taking an O-lineman with injury concerns in the 1st round, but you can’t exactly blame Angelo for not seeing a 2000+ yard rusher in Johnson
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Sep 5, 2010 1:16 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah good point, if I remember correctly
didn’t some “draft experts” blast Tenn for that pick?
"Sorry bro, he Jason Bourned me"- Drama
anyone can be a hindsight genius
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't take a genius to....
see that the Bears took Williams knowing he was injured with quality RBs and OTs still on the board. Does it? My point was that the Bears had priority on OL and RB in the ’08 draft. THey then went and made the “smart” injury pick in Williams, then took Forte in the second.
You know, the only way to analyse a draft is to look back at it. Forte, in and of himself was not a bad pick. But were there better available? I would not call the Forte pick a bad one on it’s face alone. Taking all of Forte’s skills into account, I’d say he was a good pick. But, aas I said above, when you combine that pick with Williams, who they knew needed surgery, a lot more could have been done. Do you deny this?
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
then why not
just say Williams was a bad pick…that had nothing to do with Forte. They wanted a O-lineman first and a rb second…forte was the best rb available after they already selected Williams. Forte was drafted where he was, and if you recall the main person on the Bears radar that draft was Rashard Mendenhall, not Chris Johnson. You can play the “what if” game all over that draft, but the fact is the Bears royally screwed up with Williams, and that has nothing to do with Forte. They wanted an O-Lineman first and foremost with that draft, why they chose Williams so bad, is a mystery to nearly every Bears fan.
Because there were better RBs on the board than there were OTs at the time.....
For a group that talks so much about getting the best Value with their picks before going after certain positions, the one time it would have been smart to follow that notion, they abandon it. If they weren’t going to take an RB in the Draft, then it wouldn’t be such an issue, but that wasn’t the case. They were looking for an RB to replace Ced Benson.
and if you recall the main person on the Bears radar that draft was Rashard Mendenhall
So why didn’t they take Mendenhall? Or any RB instead of a injured 14th overall pick? That’s the point! It’s is that they were looking at 1st round RBs, and then took an injured OT anyways. The point isn’t that Forte was a bad pick for the slot, but that the Bears should have taken a RB in the first, and then drafted a healthy OT in the second. Mentioning Rice was an afterthought to point out who the Bears could still have had at the position. Seems like everyone is fine with that When we’re talking about Gilbert ot Iglesias. So why is Forte different?
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
because he has produced
and Gilbert and Iglesias haven’t. You sir, are the king of bringing up stuff from other arguments and trying to implement them into your current arguments, congrats.
by jimribs on Sep 7, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Um....
He produced because they gave him the ball 316 times, and he still hasn’t broken 4.0 yards a carry, or moved up from the bottom of the league in yards after contact per carry yet. We never got to see if either of the above mentioned could perform, but we have seen Quantity over quality already from Forte. I don’t really want to get into the Forte’s Failings argument, because the bad pick wasn’t about Forte, but about draft stratagy, regardless of what the Forte apologist want to make it into.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
All I have to say was that if you were looking at another teams player
that rushed for 3.9 ypc in his rookie year and 3.6 the next, while holding the bottom slot in the league in yards after contact per carry, would you be singing about how great he was, even with the “production”?
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
if i looked at another team's player that
rushed for 1200 yards and caught for about 450 more, I’d say, “hey that was a pretty good season” as would most football observers. if yoiu nitpick every stat, you’ll find something about anyone that isn’t good. I’m not a Forte apologist, I’m just saying don’t try to add that Forte was a bad pick just to get your opinion on him in a spot that really doesn’t require it. Williams was a bad pick PERIOD.
You don't have to agree...
But that doesn’t mean I can’t bring up the point that Forte shouldn’t have been picked. Bottom line, If Forte was a Packer, you’d be talking about the same stats. Is it really that wrong to want the guy to at least can get as many yards per carry as the league average?
I don’t blame Forte entirely, but some of it surely belongs to him, does it not?
And we’re not talking about obscure stats. We’re talking about two of the single most important stats for a RB. How many yards he gets when he gets the ball and how many yards he gets after the first defender touches him. If you give enough carries to any back, they will produce good yardage. Forte needed far too many to cross 1000.
I’m not saying he cannot develop into a better rusher, nor am I saying that he isn’t good in other areas. I haven’t called for Taylor to start over him (as a matter of fact, I have argued against it ). But I am saying that if he does not improve those two very important areas, don’t be surprised if the Bears are drafting another RB high in the draft very soon.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sold on Forte being a bad pick just yet
One good season (not spectacular; but ROY noteworthy) and one poor season— both behind poorly pieced together OL— is too soon to make a rush judgement on the kid from Tulane.
He may never be a great RB along the lines of AP or Chris Johnson, but he could be a really good one in this league. He does everything “well”.
What I would question about that draft is the VERY high selection of an injured Chris Williams in 2008 when there were still two other OLs on the board (my pick? Sam Baker of USC; Atlanta Falcons). If the Bears would have traded out and down, they could have got their OL and possibly another pick to package or select another position (i.e.— corner).
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 7, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Another good point....
Angelo loves to trade down, but still took a chance on Williams. If he was eyeing Forte from the start, and knew he could get him in the second, I’m cool with that, but why not trade the first round pick down and pick up a quality o-linemen and another player a little later? Great point…..
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
rec
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 11, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Um...
I believe Mendenhall was injured for most of his entire rookie year. Not a great comparison, considering he played less than the “injured” C-dub.
I do agree that they drafted towards need rather than for value. It would’ve been nice for Clady to fall another pick to us.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
But...
to be fair….Mendenhall was injured playing in the 5th game of the season in a freak play, not drafted pre-injured. So I don’t think it’s as bad a comparison is you’re making it out to be.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 8, 2010 6:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Idk
There seemed to be a lot of grey area with CW’s existing injury. JA admitted knowing about it, but to what extent? I don’t believe he would’ve selected him if he knew it was that bad. Either way it wasn’t a great pick looking back on it; at least he’s starting, hopefully he pans out cause last season he played well once moving over.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
Resume would suggest otherwise.
Think Dan Bazuin. Or, 2010 Corey Wooton.
Mel Kiper said repeatedly on draft day that Chris Williams had slipped off many team’s draft board because of an existing injury. Once the Bears made the pick, he said it again and said that the Bears may have taken this guy too high.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
One thing is for sure
When there was the run on tackles, I thought like you and others, that they should’ve traded down.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
Yep.
I actually thought Sam Baker would go higher, but I think teams saw the run and got off the “Tackle-in-the-first-round” kick.
I could understand the Williams pick if the Bears “couldn’t” trade down, but from all accounts (including Angelo’s post-draft report), they targeted three tackles and two were taken (the other was WIlliams) and they were sold on Matt Forte (who many thought would be a 3rd rd pick).
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
ummm....
So nobody thought Johnson was going to be great, but he was selected in the first round, and ahead of Matt Forte? I remember an awful lot of analysts who were really high on Johnson.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
This ^
The knock on Johnson was that people thought he wouldn’t be able to sustain 250+ carries a season.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 5, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Boy, were they wrong.
You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes.
by ifuwannacrownem on Sep 5, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
That's yet to be determined.
Lets get through this year before you start saying that.
Five foot three seems to thrive on his misery...
by awfullyquiet on Sep 6, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
buddy, They were wrong.
If you think he needs another year to prove himself, then obviously you’ve never seen him play.
You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes.
by ifuwannacrownem on Sep 6, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
This ^
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 6, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Many people thought Tennessee was really reaching for Johnson
And by great, I mean nobody expected him to even be close to the best RB (arguably) in the league.
by ChiTownSportsMaster on Sep 6, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree with most of this but...
I think Forte is an above average RB that can be better behind a good OLine. My biggest issue with Angelo has been his gross neglect of the OLine. This guys always reaches for defense and lately when we needed to improve the OLine he just drafts more defense. Also this year why would he draft a QB in the 6th only to sign Todd Collins and cut the QB he just drafted? On the Cutler trade, why splash out on a franchise QB if you’re not going to protect him? Is he so dumb that he thinks Cutler can excel on sheer talent alone? For that mentality alone should he be fired.
Remember Angelo's famous quote?
“It’s all about the quarterback. You don’t win because of wide receivers. You don’t win because of running backs. You win because of the quarterback.”
Anyway, to answer your question, yes, Angelo is so dumb that he thinks Cutler can excel on sheer talent alone – by himself.
Way to take a comment and run with it Train
JA needs to go NOW. I understand picks not working out and some players just can’t transition but JA is too much. Pick after pick, his reaching, “out smarting” the draft board, and failures in general is pathetic. I will not mention the over paying players and poor moves as I believe Train will cover next.
Unfortunately I believe Angelo has 2 of 3 years of contract left so I can’t see the Bears brass mustering the cahones to fire him.
Oh and maybe a disclaimer next time. Caution reading this post may cause vomiting, severe alcohol consumption and the general yearning to stab a pencil in your eyes.
by TheMan1 on Sep 5, 2010 5:18 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Great post!
But by Tony Otah I think you mean Jeff Otah.. :)
Also, I remember an interview with Jerry Angelo prior to the 2008 draft about RBs. He told the camera that Darren McFadden really really stood out to the Bears’ coaching staf..
With Stewart, Rice, Johnson, Mendenhall and Forte, wow.. They do this stuff for a living..
Thanks for the catch! corrected.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 5, 2010 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I really wanted Otah to fall to us in that draft
When he did and we took Williams I was a bit surprised, but me, being the eternal optimist, went along with it. Even so, I don’t agree that the problem is Jerry’s, I place more of the blame on Lovie’s inability to develop talent.
I have serious issues with Forte....
but I also see greatness in him. It’s hard to pinpoint whether the problems revolve around the line, the scheme, his development, or his abilities. At this point, I’m willing to say it probably has more to do with the first three than the last one. He just seems to work to hard for me to drop the majority on his shoulders. That being said, he was definitely a second round (and second tier) RB prospect in 2008. After this year, when I’ve seen him work with a coach who has a decent scheme and has a talent for developing player, we’ll have a better idea of where he really is. The line might still make it hard to judge, though…….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 6, 2010 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Put Forte behind the Jets Oline
I think he would rock..
Angelo is an average GM
And that’s not good enough for my Bears.
If he had not re-signed Briggs, traded for Cutler and signed Julius Peppers… I would despise him.
He is average, and I think Lovie is an average HC
which is why we have an average football team.
Sure, we’ve got a handful of potential All Pros, but we’ve also got some bad football players on the playing field.
At the end of the day, everything evens out to average. As long as we’ve got Jerry and Lovie, we’ll probably hover between 7-9 and 9-7.
That said, I am a total contradictory-artist. My prediction for this season: 12-4… North Champs!
Atta boy.
My prediction for this season: 12-4… North Champs!
Say it long enough and it comes true.
David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/
one of the only things we have
going for us is that, the NFL is truly wacky some years, who knows, maybe this could be a 2001 all over again.
Absolutely
If our big IFs can ring true… O-line drastically improves, D-line constantly harasses QB, Key players stay healthy and Lovie/Marinelli mix it up some, on defensive play calling (example: more aggressive CB play).
This team has enough to get it done.
I would rather it be a 1985 all over again. Well, without being 11 years old, I mean.
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
Angelo
Never understood alot of his moves either….The first head-scratcher to me was Colombo in 02…I thought the kid had a chance to be a really solid LT in the league…but then he had that awful injury and was basically out for 2 yrs., then he cuts him in 05…and replaces him w/John St. Clair!!!! This drafting ineptitude just drives me crazy. Name another GM that would be given chance after chance, only to fail every time…it wouldn’t happen. This guy just doesn’t value OL or WR…time to make a change.
Adding to your fine list of the bad draft selections...
Angelo’s ability to identify NFL talent on his own roster is pathetic.
During the course of last season, there were 9 former Bears that have been full time starters on new teams since leaving Chicago. Makes you wonder why the Bears didn’t want to keep them, and have been trying to fix most of these positions since their departure? QB Kyle Orton (traded), RB Thomas Jones (traded), RB Cedric Benson (released), WR Justin Gage (released), S Chris Harris (traded), RT Marc Colombo (released), LT Mike Gandy (released), FB Lousaka Polite (released), and S Brandon McGowan (released).
At O-line, where we’ve had our share of problems:
Marc Colombo made 57 straight starts at RT for Cowboys before undergoing ankle surgery in mid season. Meanwhile, the Bears have had a revolving door at RT. I understand they ran out of patience with his knee rehab, but the guy can play.
Mike Gandy had made 76 straight starts in Buffalo and Arizona, since leaving the Bears, before being placed in IR after week 12 last year. He’s been protecting future HOF QB Kurt Warner’s blind side at LT for the past 3 seasons, and started in a Super Bowl.
At Safety (argualbly one of the msot important positions in the Cover 2:
Lovie and Jerry traded Chris Harris, because they deemed him expendable, after Lovie got his man Adam Archuletta. Archuletta was quickly out of football because he stinks and Chris Harris became Carolina’s starter ever since (leading the league in forced fumbles a couple years ago, and helping the Panthers beat the Bears 2 years ago, when forcing a Greg Olsen fumble). They missed Harris so much, they traded back for him this offseason. Meanwhile, Lovie couldn’ find a single starter among his handpicked bunch between Manning, Payne, Afalava, and Steltz, etc. And they already parted ways with Payne and Afalava.
Adding to the insult, Lovie and Jerry didn’t want Brandon McGowan back last year, despite their desperation to solidify the safety position. McGowan was a full time starter for the New England Patriots secondary all year.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
This is a part of what the next post will cover....
Things like the Checked Box Fiasco, The Musical Linemen Game and Ron Turner 2.0, along with the incredible number of players that found success around the league after leaving Chicago will all be covered in the next post….
Good post, SackMan!
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 6, 2010 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
As a Lions fan I had to vote for you all to keep Jerry :) Sorry lol anyways stopped by to post this up for yah
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Jets-sign-last-years-top-pick-by-Bears-to-practice-squad.html
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Good Writeup though
I was just thinking about this when I thought about Dan Bazuin, the other day, wasn’t he a 2nd round pick?
I touched on it up top, and wrote a comment about it the other day....
Here’s the Thomas Jones Affair….
The Bears traded Thomas Jones and their second rounder (63rd overall, remember that) to the Jets for their second round pick received from Washington (37th overall). Sound like a crap deal already, doesn’t it? Effectively they traded TJ to move up 26 spots in the second round. Not a second rounder, out right, but to move up in the round.
But, hold you horses, Jerry wan’t done outsmarting himself yet. He then traded that 37th overall pick that they just wasted Thomas Jones on to San Diego for SD’s second rounder (62nd overall) and 3rd rounder (93rd) overall. So they had by this point traded TJ to move up one spot in the second, and for the ’93rd overall pick.
And we’re not done yet……He then Selected Two of the above mentioned mistakes with those picks, Dan Bazuin with the 62nd, and Wolfe with the 93rd. So the Bears, in the end, traded Thomas Jones and a second rounder for Dan Bazuin and Garrett Wolfe. How smart is Jerry?
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Didn't I call Wolfe a bad pick?
I thought I did, but maybe…..nope, I did…
He never should have been taken that high, and if Angelo hadn’t taken him, I doubt he would have left the board before the 5th, and maybe later….
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Someone pointed out a few days ago that, in Wolfe, we have a 3rd round pick whose sole purpose is special teams. Ouch.
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
David Terrell Was Mark Hatley's Mistake, Not Angelo's.
Terrell was not an Angelo pick. That was a Mark Hatley special all the way.
http://www.bearshistory.com/seasons/2001chicagobears.aspx
Angelo’s first draft was the 2002 draft where he picked late in the first round because the team made the playoffs in ‘01, and he ended up with Marc Colombo (a solid pro even if he didn’t do it with the Bears).
I’m not defending Angelo, just think his record should be evaluated based on his actual drafts, not the guy before him.
I think his first "real" draft was 2003.
Word is, Jauron and Hatley had personnel decision making powers and with Hatley stepping away in 2002 and Jauron still in power, a mediator had to step in to help them make a draft board, because Jauron legally still had say so in the personnel decisions.
Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p
by ChicagoMarine on Sep 7, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the link......
I thought initially that this was the case, but then found conflicting reports. Much appreciated. The post is adjusted accordingly.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
1 Vote for Jerry, Jerry, He's our man???
Wonder if old JA reads the WCG?
If so… you’re a big bag of douche, please fire yourself.
by TheMan1 on Sep 7, 2010 2:20 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
This needs engreenation on the off-chance that he does, and it would help him see it.
Also, it amuses me, and TheMan1 speaks truth.
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
If you look about 9 comments
up from yours, Evilsmurf said he’s a Lions fan and placed that vote… lol.
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
Editor/Writer for WindyCityGridiron.com
Gentlemen's agreement
After the Super Loss, Angelo decided that Thomas Jones was a luxury.
They had a mutual agreement between each other prior to the SB year. JA promised he would do his best to trade him to a team as a #1 RB; he obliged TJ when he flipped him for a swap of those second rounders.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
I do understand that....
But it got to that point because Angelo wanted Benson to be the number one and TJ knew it. Promising to trade TJ was the right thing, but trading him the way he did, then squandering the picks was the point. I won’t even delve into how we got to that point here. That is a personnel issue for the next post.
Keeping his word to TJ was one of the few things I commend Angelo for. Getting to that point was a totally different story.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 7, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
To believe I was OK with him trading TJ
It’s quite obvious CB had/has real talent, and that he wasn’t going to realize that talent until he was cut. It wasn’t a bad evaluation of a player by JA, but poor management of that player.
"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.
Exactly.....
nothing more needs to be said.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 8, 2010 6:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Get Rid of Everybody!!!
I remember when Angelo said that the QB position wasn’t such an important slot, and he gave examples of how Tampa and Baltimore had won SB’s with less than stellar QB’s. Thus this is why we saw Grossman and Orton (whom I liked) playing the position. The Bears organization will continue to back pedal when they realize that their gimmicks won’t last, and you need quality personnel (Team Presidents, GM’s, Coaches, Scouts, Ownership, and Players) to make a great team! When Lovie was hired as coach, he stated he wanted an offense like the Rams (at the time), then they blame Terry Shea for their failure and he was fired. Lovie goes on record saying: We need to run the football. I always said we needed to run the football. The Bears ownership will roll the dice on players and coaches who won’t make any impact, because they lack the development to do so. Now it’s about the gimmick (4-3, 3-4, cover 2,3,4, West Coast, Run & Shoot, Etc.) No Bears coach will develop talent to play on the level that you see the top teams play on. The Bears coaching staff lack the fortitude to teach players how to play in the NFL. That’s why the defense has gotten worse since Rivera was let go, because he taught the defense how to play! On offense the Bears never developed a passing attack or a rushing attack, and we wonder why Angelo kept wasting picks on defense. They keep believing they can win like the 85 Bears (running game and defense) , but those days are over. Sooner or later, you wake up only to realize it’s too late!!! How is it that most players leave Chicago, only to become better players elsewhere?
The Angelo picks you imply as being good ones were interesting ...
Alex Brown : Average end.
Lance Briggs: Stud, granted.
Charles Tillman : good stripper, average coverage guy.
Tommie Harris: Used to be good.
Tank Johnson: Not on the roster due to boldness.
Bernard Berrian: Who?
Chris Harris: Average coverage guy.
Kyle Orton: Serviceable QB with no arm. Got us Cutler.
Devin Hester: Great return man. Not a polishe receiver by any means.
Greg Olsen: Not worth a first rounder.
Matt Forte: Good second rounder.
Chris Williams : Might not get his job back.
Johnny Knox : Fast , but unpolished receiver. Weak lower body. Good blocker.
And that’s the best Angelo came up with ….
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