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Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

The Lions-aid is flowing and Detroit is going back for SECONDS!

I strolled over to the Lions blog to see some of the updates on the team and concerns going into the week 1 contest in Chicago this weekend.

Let me tell you this...

... The "new season" optimism is alive and flowing!  Haha!

In the Lion's Den defense, there are some quality writers over there who report what is going on and has a good ear to the pulse of the team, but some of the posts are a bit much for even the most non-biased NFL fan to stomach.

 

Take a look at THIS thread and my comments after the jump...

Star-divide

It reads...

 

First I am going to look at the teams on a position by position basis. For the most part I am just dumping out the knowledge, analysis, and opinions that are in my head here, and when necessary I will do a little research.

Quarterback: Cutler is more experienced and has more wins in the NFL than Stafford. He also has a better passer rating over his career and last season. Cutler did show a clear drop off in performance when he came to the Bears from Denver. In preseason the entire Chicago offense has looked ugly and Cutler admits that it is "a work in progress". Many players are struggling with the new offense and all things are not clicking in the passing game for Cutler. In fact he warned the Chicago media to expect a lot of interceptions this year. Conversely Stafford appears to be poised to take step at quarterback, a step closer to being "the man", and possibly a big step. Stafford has shown a lot of promise in the preseason and has the Detroit faithful very excited. Most of this excitement comes from camps, practices, and preseason games however and nothing has been proven on the field when it counts.

I see a tale of two quarterbacks here, one trending down, another trending up. Player versus player, pound for pound, I can honestly say this is the "prove it" game for Stafford. Indications are that we might have a big edge here and even though Cutler has the edge in experience, wins, and overall success in the league I think all of that will be more than canceled out by the struggles and lack of confidence he has in the Bears new offense. Edge Lions.

(Although the city of Detroit is expecting BIG things out of their first round draft QB, Bears fans probably are expecting MORE from Jay Cutler because of what was sacrificed to get him to Chicago.  Two first round draft picks and a QB who had more success than Cutler has had to this point [Orton].  Most analysts expect the Lions to get better, but no one expects Stafford to take this team to the playoffs in 2010.  Jay Cutler has a lot more to prove because of all the things he listed.  Cutler is in a far better quarterback because it's not based upon "what he might do", but what he can do.  As he suggested, Cutler has already proven that he can play the game of football.  Stafford has had one-half of a season and nothing overly impressive to place on that resume.  Advantage?  CUTLER)



Runningback: Well the good news is that we have Jahvid Best. The bad news is that we have no legitimate, proven threat behind him. Questions about Smiths health, and Browns ability to not only run the correct plays but also be able to run inside the tackles and on the goal line may be answered in this game. But they are still questions. Jerome Felton is completely unproven as a runner and pass protector and he has a lot to prove yet too. So that brings us to Maurice Morris as the only non mystery running behind Best. Though Morris is solid he is not the type of back that anyone is going to get excited about when he checks into the game.

The biggest surprise this year in Chicago just might be their running game. Early indicators are that Matt Forte has gotten over his sophomore slump. Just to make sure that he did the Bears went out and added Chester Taylor in free agency. Taylor is going to be breathing down his back all year and can easily take over the starting duties if Forte fails to perform. Contrary to what many in Detroit think about Martz the guy proved that he can have a successful run game when he was with the Rams.

All things considered I have to call this one a wash. Best is the real deal but unless Felton or Brown takes a serious step in this game our complimentary backs leave a lot to be desired. Had Forte not had a sophomore slump this would be a hands down advantage for the Bears. However he has as much to prove to the Bears this game as Stafford does the Lions. Chester Taylor may be the feature back in Chicago before years end, good thing for them he is capable of handling it. Edge None.

(Edge-- None? How can that be?  You feature two backs who have PROVEN success in their tenure and you match them against two backs that have a resume of  0-NFL regular season yds and say there is no advantage is sipping the Lions kool-aid really hard.  Matt Forte had a dismal 2009 campaign, but that's not saying much about a guy who played injured an entire season behind a offensive line that ESPN ranked as one of the 5 worst in the NFL in 2009.  Chester Taylor and Matt Forte are a clear advantage over Jahvid Best and whoever the Lions trot out there and that's just being real.  Far better talents!


Tight End: Pettigrew, Scheffler, and Heller make the Lions one of the best groups in the NFL. The good news for the Bears is that Greg Olsen can easily be mentioned in the same company. The bad news for them is that no one else on their roster can be. The Lions have a clear edge here but I don't know how much of a disadvantage for the Bears that really is since the Martz offense does not rely on anything but blocking from the tight ends. Edge Lions.

(I agree here...)


Wide Receiver: The Lions have a potent one, two punch here with Calvin Johnson and Nate Burleson but have no one worth mentioning or game planning for behind those two. The Bears have a very under rated receiving core Johnny Knox, Devin Aromashodu, Devin Hester, and Earl Bennett give the Bears a group that can be very lethal to a slow secondary and also can make gains after the catch when thrown to underneath. It is a good thing for the Bears that the Martz offense does not require physical mismatches and relies more on timing. It is a bad thing for the Bears that the Lions are building a fast and physical secondary capable of interrupting that timing. I have to give the edge to the Lions here only because of the freakish ability of Calvin Johnson. He has the ability to take over and dominate a game, to change the outcome all by himself, that no other name on either squad can. Edge Lions.

(I would agree here as well, but only because Calvin Johnson is a monster of a WR.  The idea that the Lions are "building a fast and physical secondary" is speculative and wishful-thinking on the part of any NFL fan.  The Bears are underrated as he suggests and there won't be much the secondary can do to stop Knox or Hester in space.)

Fullback: Neither team has the type of offense or personnel to make this position any kind of real factor in the game in my opinion. Sure both have players that can leak out into the red zone and get a touchdown but that has more to do with coaching and scheme match up than any exceptional talent either team can boast. Edge None.

(I agree)

Offensive Line: The off season addition of Rob Sims and healthy recovery of Stephen Peterman gives the Lions an overwhelming edge here. For the first time in a long time the Lions actually have the best offensive line in the NFC North with four legitimate contenders for the pro bowl our only question marks going into this game are Gosder Cherilus and staying healthy. Chicago on the other hand has question marks all over their line with their only standout player being Olin Kreutz. The Bears are going to have serious concerns keeping their quarterback healthy this game and moving forward into the season. Edge Lions.

(The Lions OL is not the best in NFC North-- The Packers are.  2nd best?  I would agree.  The additions that are listed DO make a huge difference.  I would agree that the Bears OL vs The Lions OL the Lions have less concerns and more skill.  How that matches up with the opposing DLs will be a different story.  But for the sake of this post I will agree that they do have a better OL.)

Defensive Line: Both teams feature some serious talent on this side of the ball. The Lions have Kyle Vanden Bosch, Ndamukong Suh, Cory Williams, and Cliff Avri. Our line has some serious potential and a nice mix of veterans with youth, now if we could just gel and stop taking stupid penalties, especially in 3rd and long situations we should be able to contend with anyone in the league here. Chicago features proven tackles Anthony Adams and Tommy Harris along with Julius Peppers on the outside, add in promising young Cory Wootton to that mix and our offensive line is going to have their hands full all day long. While at first glance you might consider all of these guys a wash there are two things that give the Lions an edge here. First of all the depth coming off the bench is second to none for the Lions. Secondly, though the Bears have a fearsome pass rush their line is extremely vulnerable when run at, especially when run directly at. Edge Lions.

(Seriously?  Julius Peppers was the priority of EVERY NFL team this offseason, right?  Wasn't Vanden Bosch in that list as well?  N. Suh looks good and will be a problem for OLs, but Tommie Harris looks to be over his "Cedric Benson" sabbatical and has a proven track record in the NFL.  That should count for something, right?  I think if there was a category to give out one of the "NONE" advantage ratings-- this is it.  There is a lot of talent on both of these units and I don''t think there is a clear advantage anywhere.)

Line Backers: The Lions have Julian Peterson as a stalwart outside backer, and some promise in DeAndre Levy, if he can stay healthy. However there is a big question mark this year in Zack Follett and though veteran Landen Johnson will be solid if called upon there is nothing but special teams players and question marks behind him. The Bears on the other hand have Brian Urlacher and Hunter Hillenmayer in the middle with Lance Briggs, Nick Roach, and Piso Tinoisamoa on the outside. There are absolutely no question marks for the Bears here, not on starters or backups. The Bears have 3 pro bowl quality starters and 2 starter caliber back ups. Edge Bears.

(IF he would have said "NONE" here-- I would have went and found him.)

Secondary: The Lions have Louis Delmas and a lot of hope and prayers in the secondary. With a whole stable of fast, young, physical players the Lions have an unknown quantity in the secondary. Chris Houston and Jonathan Wade are looking to break out and prove that they are legit starters in this league. Recent trade acquisition Alphonso Smith is another young talent that has been discarded by the team that drafted him. Randy Philips is someone who never got drafted at all and Amari Spievey has been moved from corner to safety. These guys should have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove not only to the Lions but also themselves, and in most cases their former teams too.

Bears safeties Daniel Manning and Chris Harris compliment rookie Major Wright. Charles Tillman and Zack Bowman are the bears corners and while Bowman is up and coming, Tillman is nothing to write home about. The Bears have a lot of developmental projects in the secondary they are hoping take a step forward this year. One notable difference is that the Bears have actually drafted quite a few of these guys and this will definitely be a bubble year for a few of them. This is easily the Bears 2nd biggest weakness behind the offensive line. Edge None.

(I agree... these units stink!  I don't know which one will be worse at seasons end, but both will be completely revamped except for Delmas and Wright in two years.)

Special Teams: The Lions have Jason Hanson, Nick Harris, and Stefan Logan as the impact guys on special teams. While Hanson and Harris might not be rising stars in the league there is something to be said for the consistency of a kicking unit that has been together for 7 years. Significant attention has been paid to upgrading the coverage units as well for the Lions. With all of the additions including a highly regarded special teams coordinator in Danny Crossman I expect big things from the Lions this year.

The Bears have Robbie Gould, Brad Maynard, Johnny Knox and Danieal Manning as their impact players on special teams. I also expect D.J. Moore to take over punt returns for Devin Hester since he has looked good in the preseason and Hester was nothing special in returns last year. What may surprise a lot of you is the fact that Manning and Knox combined to be the 3rd best kick return tandem in the NFL last year. Knox was the real standout averaging 29 yards per return over 32 kicks and taking one 102 yards for a touchdown.

Looking at this you can understand why we are upgrading up our coverage units. We have closed the gap but probably not enough to surpass Chicago's excellent special teams play. Edge Bears.

(Won't argue here either...)


Lets Recap that shall we.

Offense: QB: Lions Bears, RB: None Bears, TE: Lions, FB: None, OL: Lions

Defense: DL: Lions Bears, LB: Bears, DB: None

Special Teams: Bears

When I take all of that in and let is soak I see a key to the game. Who can run the ball. Ultimately I think that several things line up for the Lions to win this game. Though the Bears have an excellent linebacker core they will get caught between covering our tight ends and trying to stop Jahvid Best. To make that even more important is the fact that the best way to nullify both Julius Peppers and Tommy Harris is to run right at them. If the Bears are struggling as badly with the Martz passing offense as the preseason has led us to believe this is going to make it that much more important that they can run the ball. Given that the Lions defensive line looks to be very stalwart against the run that does not bode well for the Bears. Another key to this game is going to be how well the Lions secondary can jam receivers at the line and disrupt the delicate timing involved in the Martz offense. If there is no disruption of routes, and the Lions secondary fails to turn their head and not only locate but play the ball, the Bears and Martz just might have the last laugh. I fully expect some big passes against our secondary but I do not think it will be enough in the end for the Bears to win. It will also be interesting to see if Cutler can stay off his back and stay healthy. If the Lions coverage unit cannot keep Knox and Manning contained on kick offs it will keep the game closer than some might think but the Bears will still lose.

It should be noted also that the Lions have some key injuries at MLB and DB, ironically so do the Bears.

His assessment is koolaid driven.  I think this will be a shootout that favors whoever can take the lead and run the clock out.  I just see too many problems with the Lions LBs and CBs for them to be able to stop the NUMEROUS number of screens and 4-receier formations they will see on Sunday.  LEt's not forget, that Greg Olsen is faster and bigger than any LB or Nickel on the Lions roster and will be flexed in and off the line to create matchups all afternoon.  I see the Lions being able to get 23pts, but I don't see the Lions being able to stop the Bears from scoring 4 TDs (28pts).

Comment 202 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Are you sure there drinkin Kool Aid over there ....

….. cause it seems to me that they ’ ve moved on to some heavier stuff . Kool Aid is a gateway drug you know .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 2:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Obviously, bro! haha?

I read it and did a “huh??” almost instantly.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Catnip.

Dats’ sum badazz shish…

"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson; "More bell cow" - Lovie Smith

by Pete Dixon on Sep 9, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cat piss is even better

WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!

by Acreman20 on Sep 9, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

You would think

that they would at least show some courtesy by wiping the litter off their paws before stepping over here. Certainly no shortage of doormats over there. Get it? Doormats? harharhar…

"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson; "More bell cow" - Lovie Smith

by Pete Dixon on Sep 9, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Along with koolaid

There smoking some good stuff on that blog lions are losing this game bears drop 40 again

by Bear Lovin 21 on Sep 9, 2010 2:44 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

, . ! ; ? :

There are others out there as well, but this should at least get you started.

by Dane Noble on Sep 9, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 10, 2010 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

What happened to that Lions fanpost that was over here?

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 9, 2010 2:52 PM CDT reply actions  

Did I do an "uh-oh"?

:-/

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Surprisingly not

But don’t worry, I took care of it.

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Sep 9, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

haha!

That did have the potential to be bad!

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 9, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Things got crazy,

someone said something stupid, someone brought a keg and disco ball and it all went downhill from there.

by Steven Schweickert on Sep 9, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see what you're saying.

:-/

(My bad, Kev)

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really hate that guy. :-/

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

i think there is more than just

kool-aid to that viewpoint. bear lovin is right, there is some good herb getting consumed up there if they are that confident of a lions victory. only cutler haters or lions diehards would take stafford over cutler and i would take forte/taylor over their guys (and almost every other rb combo in the league) every day of the week.

if the bears unfortunately lose this game it would get chalked up to chicago beating themselves, again. if nothing else, maybe steltz can get another pick in front of megatron in the end zone to save the day.

by reefermadness3 on Sep 9, 2010 3:30 PM CDT reply actions  

You can take Forte/Taylor all you want

But when you don’t have a front line to open holes for them what good are they? Hows Kevin Jones doing????

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Sep 10, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who is on the Kool-Aid?

First of all the Cutler – Stafford debate is a close one. Cutler has done nothing but get worse since he came to Chicago and is obviously struggling with the Martz offense. Hell even he has warned reporters that there are going to be some interceptions. Stafford on the other hand has shown nothing but positive signs of growth. If you go and watch the NFL mic’ed up of Cutler last year, then go Watch Stafford mic’ed up, it pretty much says it all.

Secondly are you kidding me on the DL? Our guys are going to be facing a JV offensive line and you guys are going to be facing arguably the best offensive line in the NFC north. Also you defensive line fared no better than the scrubs we had last year and cut against the run allowing a whopping 0.2 yards per game on the ground less than us. you added Peppers who is historically weak on the run where we upgraded not only the pass rush but the run play. Ndamukong Suh, Corey Williams, KVB, and even Avril has added a lot of beef in the off season. Tommy Harris showed up for 3 games last year, oh yeah GL with that! Corey Wooton has proven nothing so far, I don’t see any NFL network specials on him where Warren Sap is breaking down his game and he is beating double teams, nor do I see a Warren Sapp stamp of approval on him.

KVB is better than Peppers on the run game and the fact that he never takes plays off, Peppers is better on the pass rush I will give you that. Corey Williams and Anthony Adams goes to the Lions. Not only was Williams a franchise tackle in Green Bay when he played in a 4-3 but he had a nice performance in the 3-4 for the Browns last year. Suh > Harrris, its just that simple. Suh is consistently beating double teams against top 5 NFL lines like the Browns where Harris is struggling to tie his shoelaces and make it out onto the field. Avril > Wooton easily. Not only was Avril a bright spot on a bad line last year but he has added a lot of beef in the off season and is playing the run well too. He is a complete DE this year where Wooton is a bunch of hopes, prayers, and question marks. Not to mention our back ups Sammy Lee Hill, Turk McBride, Lawrence Jackson, and Willie Young could upgrade some of those starters you have.

Then we come to running back. Jahvid Best is the top guy on either squad. Forte can’t touch him, Taylor cant touch him. In fact unless you put Hester on defense no one on the field is going to catch him. If you want to hang your hat on a 30 year old, retread, backup who is actually better than you starter last year then you go ahead and do that. You might get 1 good year out of him, maybe.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 9, 2010 3:44 PM CDT reply actions  

As I was saying...

"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson; "More bell cow" - Lovie Smith

by Pete Dixon on Sep 9, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

First of all the Cutler – Stafford debate is a close one.

No it’s not.

Cutler has done nothing but get worse since he came to Chicago and is obviously struggling with the Martz offense.

It’s obvious that Cutler is struggling with the Martz offense? How’s that exactly? Well I guess if anyone would no about struggling it’d be a Lions fan.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

The preseason means everything!

Why can’t you accept that like the rest of the hack analysts out there?

"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.

by propheteer on Sep 9, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right forgive me, for using logic and reasoning. And most importantly taste.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh and after I read that much of your post I quit,

because I didn’t feel like having to block quote your inaccuracies over and over again. You’re welcome.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

LoL you must be superfan #4

Trying to grip and claw and fight and hold onto the days of glory past rather than looking ahead because it is too scary to face. Fear and Loathing in Chicago about hit the nail on the head.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 9, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

No I don't need to look at the past because if I compare the two

well there’s really no reason since you’re franchis is good at pretty much nothing. And I don’t need to look at the future either since it’s not a guarantee, no sir I tend to live in the present. I stand by what I said about your post if you need to read it again just look up.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh and you only say anything about the past

because your franchise has none to speak of. No championships nothing. The only thing any Lions fan can bring up is how great Barry Sanders was. The best thing he did was get smart and get the F out of Detroit.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

The best thing he did was get smart and get the F out of Detroit.

Truer words have never been written on a sports blog, or any blog for that matter. Sanders was a once in a lifetime talent. It’s a shame Detroit forced him into an early retirement.

WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!

by Acreman20 on Sep 9, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Need I quote Gayle Sayers?

Every franchise has their black marks. Actually I could go back to the past if I wanted to. Lst year the bears went from 9-7 the previous year to 7-9, -2 in wins. The Lions went from 0-16 to 2-14, +2 wins. If that trend continues it would put the bears at 5-11 and the Lions at 4-12. However that trend don’t stop there. Looking at the off season moves and draft the Lions have outdone the Bears this year. So not only is recent history on our side the off season moves and momentum is.

I fully expect the Lions to go 6-10 this year, I don’t think they are making a push for the playoffs this year, but things are looking up. For the bears though I expect things to be looking down, just like they have been ever since their Super Bowl loss. The Bears will finish 4-12 and likely lose every divisional game this year. As a Lions fan never were these words more apt. Welcome to my nightmare.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 9, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

You may want to check into the Rubber Ramada there pal .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to resist the temptation to blockquote the drivel that you just wrote.

Your record prediction for the Bears is really just insulting and you know as well as I do that your 2 game trend up or down is faulty. If things worked the way you say then how do you explain the Dolphins going from 1-15 to 11-5? You are a homer i get it, you have no real football knowledge and you are going to go to the Packers and Vikings blog and say the same garbage. I’m not naive enough to say the Lions can’t beat the Bears. But I highly doubt that they will beat them in the first game of the season at Soldier Field.

One other thing, Stafford has played the Bears all of 1 time and he didn’t even finish the game. If you think that the coaching staff isn’t aware of that you got another thing coming. Oh and tell him to watch his back because Peppers is coming and Urlacher and Briggs, so if Johnson is open he better throw it quick.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just a thought

Detroit’s offensive line has allowed 2 sacks the entire preseason.

How many has Chicago’s allowed? was it 19?

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again

Preseason does not necessarily = regular season performance. If that were true you are looking at another 0-16 season. You have any more preseason crap you want to put out? Cause basically you are hanging your hat and success on games that most teams don’t consider meaningful.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

the only think preseason is good for is looking for trends

19 sacks in 4 games is a absolute ton and points to a certain trend. Are you telling me you do not worry about your O line?

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

^the only thing

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes I worry about our O line some, however

I’m willing to see what they do when they are playing a consistent scheme and will not make judgement as to their performance until I see them in a few games.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like i said, just trends.

The real season will tell the truth.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ummmm .... one word in your first sentence sums it pretty well ......

………. sums it up …………….

preseason

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair argument.

Again, look at my critique of Evilsmurf’s post.

If we are comparing apples to apples, then YES the Lions seemingly have a better OL than the Bears.

But, if we are comparing the “Bears OL vs Lions DL” to “Lions OL vs Bears DL” then we have another argument.

Evilsmurf’s post suggests which units are better; not who would fare better on Sunday.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dikta you are the Bears biggest homer troll out here!

You were last year when I came over here and you still are. You quit reading Evils post because your mommy quit reading it too you! You are as closed minded as they come. Remember last year when I was laughing at your franchise for trading away the entire farm for 1 QB and not even the best 1 in that division and you talked alot of smack then. Well Mr. FOOTBALL your QB is going to struggle again this year and after Martz get’s Lovie and Merinera sauce chased out of town you will see that your Bears are the basement dwellers this year!

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Sep 10, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

cant be a troll on my teams website.

Stay classy.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 10, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow.
Lst year the bears went from 9-7 the previous year to 7-9, -2 in wins. The Lions went from 0-16 to 2-14, +2 wins.

We’re pissed we that our team only won seven games, and you guys are ecstatic over two. Congrats on that.

-------
Stupid babies need the most attention!

by David Taylor on Sep 9, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

2 wins from the terrible season of none

is an improvement and shows something even more important. Detroit is slowly building a competitive team. For the first time in almost a Decade Detroit is actually looking like it is improving year to year.

There is an incredible amount of young talent playing for the Lions and if things go well they will be a team to contend with in the very near future.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

It’s hard to lose more games than zero.

While I agree that Lions are improving, it doesn’t usually happen overnight. I’m not saying you can’t win 8 games, I’m just surprised by the crazed over-confidence that I keep reading.

-------
Stupid babies need the most attention!

by David Taylor on Sep 9, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, there are some crazy positive thinkers for Detroit

but that could be said for any team. I am thinking 4-6 wins this season for the lions.

If I were a Bears fan, I would be petrified at the thought of Cutler in a Martz system. He is prone to throwing ints and Martz’s system is known to create yards yes but also a ton of sacks and turn overs.

With the way your O line is performing so far, you will be lucky to have him start 16 games this season. You better hope for improvement here and fast.

As far as overnight, this is the Second year of rebuilding from the burning hulk that (he who shall not be named) left. I think any reasonable Lions fan will tell you they expected 3 years for any real results.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair....

Cutler wasn’t really “prone” to throwing INTs until he came under the brilliant offensive douchebaggery known as Ron “The Douche” Turner, who is the mistake so nice the Bears made it twice.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 9, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cutlers season totals for Ints in his four years

5
14
18
26

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Has he ever thrown more INTs than TDs?

Nope. And what you failed to note was his TD numbers, which have also increased with each year, even last year under the leadership of Ron “The Douche” Turner. who could make Peyton Manning look bad. TD #‘s? 9, 20, 25 and 27. Last season was the only one where he was ever in jeopardy of throwing more TDs than INTs and I think we’ve already covered Turner. In ’08 he threw 18 INTs and still made the Pro Bowl.

When you throw as much as Cutler has (in his 3 years as a starter, Cutler has ranked 15th, 2nd and 4th in attempts) INTs are bound to happen. Ignoring last season (where “The Douche” was his playcaller, Cutler’s INT% has been within .2% of drew Brees as a starter. Do you consider Brees to be “prone to throwing INTs”?

Some notable names that Cutler beat in INT percentage as a starter?

2007: Kurt Warner, Phillip Rivers Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, every Bears QB Turner started, Tony Romo, Jon Kitna and Carson Palmer

2008: Brett Favre, Matt Hasselbeck, Tony romo, Ben Rothlisberger, Jon Kitna, and Carson Palmer

Now, as before, Culter’s 2009 was lost to “The Douche”. But you know, He still had a better INT% than Matthew Stafford, who not only threw 20 INTs in just 3 ATTs (to Cutlers 26 in 555) but he also only threw 13 TDs even with a better receiving corps.

I’d spend more time being worried about Stafford’s INT prone tendencies and lack of TD throwing tendencies than Jay. Even worse, your OC is still the same guy who led Matty to 13-20.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 9, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

# ATTs should read 377 ATTs.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 9, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will take a rookie throwing that many INTs

before a 4 season Vet any day. I said it then and I will repeat it now, the Cutler trade was a huge mistake for Chicago.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

IMHO

Chicago gave way too much up for him when so many other positions on the team needed upgrading.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree with this.

Personally, I was a fan of the Bears going after Brees several years ago when he became a FA. But, the stubborness of Jerry Angelo runs very deep and he couldn’t let go of the idea that “Rex Grossman was our QB”.

Nevertheless, to say that the team getting a QB with all the intangibles to be a great QB and has shown signs of doing that on an “NFL level” is absurd.

Did they give up too much? Yes.

But, the Bears had to get a franchise QB to be able to compete. They had to.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

But, the Bears had to get a franchise QB to be able to compete. They had to.

Truth. I read somewhere, the last team to win the super bowl with a non franchise QB was something like 10 years ago.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly!

And since Angelo is inept at being able to find one in the draft— this was the obvious choice (Although I would have rather he spent the money on Drew Brees years ago rather than give up two first round picks).

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too much?... Still to be determined IMHO

Where we do agree… Yes, they absolutely had to.

by rdent4hof on Sep 10, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Says the guy who's team hasn't had a decent QB since Bobby Layne.....

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 9, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

great point!

Probably makes me more desperate but where we are as a team right now. I will take Stafford with exuberance.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Looking back at my last comment, this morning....

That comes off different reading it than it was intended when writing it. I had to jump up right away and get ready for work. That wasn’t meant to sound as snide as it reads. Wasn’t meant to be snide at all.

I was trying to convey the point that Getting a franchise QB is something that is much harder to do than some realize. I was illustrating it with the Bobby Layne comment. Came off sounding dismissive, though, as I re-read it. Sorry about that.

I don’t think you realize how little giving up 2 1st rounders a second rounder and Orton for Culter and the pick that was Johnny Knox.

You see, Jerry Angelo would have made those picks, which likely would have ended up being a shiny new pool jumping 3-4 DE and a new DB to convert to WR. You won’t find a whole lot of faith around here in Angelo’s ability to turn those 1st and second rounders into players that were worth more than Cutler and Knox.

And I like and respect Orton quite a bit, but he will never be anything more than a glorified game manager with varying results based on scheme and coordinator. That’s not a bad thing. The league needs guys like Orton. Guys like him give rookies time to develop while holding the spot down safely and with reliable results. But he isn’t going to win games for a team with his arm. It’ll be his poise and decision making that will keep teams in a position to win, and he won’t often lose games for you, but he won’t often do the winning part himself, either.

As far as Stafford goes, He hasn’t proven anything yet, as far as winning and performance go (though I think he will sooner rather than later). But I do like his attitude and the way he carries himself.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 10, 2010 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

its all good

Detroit HAS been desperate for a franchise QB. It is the honest truth.

As for no faith in drafting. You are looking at the fan base understands that feeling down to the very core of their fandom.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

T-Train

Most of us at the POD know who you are and what you are about. I think it’s safe to say that we know where you are coming from and no one would take what you say as a slam against us. Now with that said: I think it’s funny how either of our teams fan base can talk smack about the QB position in general.I mean since the dawning of the SB era I can’t recall 1 Breas or Lions QB that was the toast of the town. Yeah the Bears have won a SB but it sure wasn’t because of Jimmy Mac. It was the best D in the league at that time that helped win that SB and we all know it. Now I would like too make a little friendly bet between our 2 fan groups. I bet the Lions get a QB into the PB before the Bears do!!!!! Now I have a question to all you Bears fans. When was the last QB from the Bears inducted into the HOF?? Not slamming cause I really don’t know when the last time either team had 1 go in.To my little feeble Lions loving brain we had the last QB to get inducted. Was Jimmy Mac inducted??

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Sep 10, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

No,

McMahon wasn’t inducted. But. to be fair, the defense wasn’t right in the beginning of the /85 season, and it actually was Jimmy that carried the Bears on his back (along with one Walter Payton)through the first few games. For example, see the Viking Miracle in ‘85. McMahon was sidelined with a back injury, but argued his way into the game to throw a TD on his first two throws and three in seven minutes. Here’s a bit of video (relative portions from 0:01 to 1:56) Discounting the offense in ’85 is unfair to guys like McMahon and Payton who carried that team while the defense tried to get it together.

The Bears have had a few QBs who were actually good, but none that were Hall Worthy since Sid Luckman. McMahon, Harbaugh, and Kramer would head the list.

And thanks for the kind words, sir.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 10, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Duh?

Eric Hipple had a great beard.

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 10, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kyle Orton would have been envious....

LOL

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 11, 2010 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Even ESPN never mentions is TD numbers
And what you failed to note was his TD numbers

"Boozer's dumbass dunked, so i dunked on his dumbass"- Joakim Noah

by T.Moore on Sep 10, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

his*

"Boozer's dumbass dunked, so i dunked on his dumbass"- Joakim Noah

by T.Moore on Sep 10, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

You already mentioned why.

ESPN

Eternal Sports Pessimism Network. If it’s negative, and biased, we’ll report it!

by Steven Schweickert on Sep 10, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I knew why

Just how they not once mentioned it at all.

"Boozer's dumbass dunked, so i dunked on his dumbass"- Joakim Noah

by T.Moore on Sep 10, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, they won't.

Nothing will stand in the way of Favrepalooza and “Tom Brady 4Eva!”

by Steven Schweickert on Sep 10, 2010 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

What about

Sanchezmania!!!

"Boozer's dumbass dunked, so i dunked on his dumbass"- Joakim Noah

by T.Moore on Sep 10, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right....

Sanchez is the most over-rated player in the league. Period. I predict Stafford will have a much better career.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 10, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hahahahahahahahaha

Who won 0 games two years ago

Who won 2 games last year

Uhhh

When the lions win more than 5 games.
You can come post over here

But

Until then

Have fun picking in the top 3 of the draft every year

by suckmyditka on Sep 9, 2010 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

wow, a class comment

I have to give every one who posts here some credit. You have had heated conversation with fans of another team and kept it mostly civil.

This champion of your team thinks he can tell people where to post?

Every site has one……..

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Keep being a douche brah

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

being famous in your own mind does not count

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

And

Stafford playing one year and having a worse season than Cutler somehow makes him a better qb?

Sounds like Lions fans have some sorting out to do in they heads.

by suckmyditka on Sep 9, 2010 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't ever recall personally saying Stafford is better than Cutler

I honestly think Stafford will be much better than Cutler when all is said and done but right now. Nope.

That game last year against Cleveland, Stafford showed me something I have not seen in so many years. He was Hit and driven into the ground so hard his non throwing shoulder was separated. Taken out of the game, he could not return. For some reason the Browns called a timeout. When he heard the TO called, he jumped up rushed past the trainers and went to Schwartz telling him he could throw it if needed. Schwartz did not respond but instead looked to Linehan. Staff when to him and told him the same thing and then went back into the game and threw the winning TD.

He displays leadership and toughness the Lions have lacked at the QB position for so long. Man crush? hell yeah.

Watch 6 minutes of this game where Stafford was mic’d up. His Football IQ, toughness and we have to win attitude won over many a doubtful Lions fan.

Linky

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

also, remember. this is a rookie QB you are watching and listening to

Lots of time to improve

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

All i gotta say is

I never said i didn’t like Stafford

Just that bozo up thur sayin STafford and Cutler are equals or even Stafford is better

It’s a buncha bull.

Who knows what the future hold for either of them. They are both young QBs with strong arms.

Aite bro we straight.

by suckmyditka on Sep 9, 2010 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

if you are talking about EvilSmurf

he is actually one of the more level headed posters on Pride of Detroit. If he says that, he no doubt believes it.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which was my problem with the post.

That’s why I critiqued.

Re-read my comments. He suggests that his comments were “fair” and “unbiased” and they reeked of homerism.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

In all fairness

I would take Stafford over Cutler too if I was building a franchise, and I’ll give you reasonings more than preseason stats.

1) Stafford is younger. Cutler’s 27. Stafford’s 22
2) Stafford has basically played in a pro style offense for five years now….pretty much the same amount as Cutler.
3) Stafford is not a crybaby. He is tough, both mentally and physically. Refer to Cleveland game. Even as Bears fans, you have to admit Cutler would never go back in the game or play the Packers four days later after taking the type of beating Stafford took.

The runningbacks: I don’t get how you can say Forte+Taylor > Smith+Best

Forte has yet to average more than 4 yards a carry in his career. Chester Taylor is what 40? Kevin Smith averaged over 4 yards in his rookie season playing behind a putrid offensive line and no quarterback. Last year, he played with a multitude of injuries. Plus, K-Smooth is 23 and Best is 21 and absolutely eletrifying. He is a pretty much a poor man’s Chris Johnson.

Plus, salary wise, Jahvid Best and Kevin Smith combined make a million less than Chester Taylor.

The beginning of the end of the misery

by Latif Masud on Sep 12, 2010 3:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

3)

Ummmm…how many games has Cutler missed again? #3 is BS. You read too much media crap. Last I remember, Cutler hasn’t missed a game since he took over as starter in ‘06, while Stafford missed 6 games out of 16. I’m not saying Stafford is a wuss or anything, but your logic is pretty flawed. And if you think that Cutler hasn’t taken a beating, well, he was sacked 10 times in the pre-season. He was one of the most hit QBs in the league last year, and was the most hit starter in the preseason. Not only did he not complain, but he publicly stated the team would be fine come the first game.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 12, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not to mention

STAFFORD GOT KNOCKED OUTTA THE GAME

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH pwnt

by suckmyditka on Sep 15, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are right suckmyditka

especially about drafting so high every year, esp now that Millen is gone and we are not drafting WR after WR after WR. But at leasat we actually draft players instead of trading away 4 and our starting QB for the second best QB in the division like your Bears did!

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Sep 10, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are all Lions fans this delusional ? Must be all the .....

…… hippy lettuce abuse in the greater Detroit area .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haha that's a rec for you JazzyBBP

“I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.”

WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!

by Acreman20 on Sep 9, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Gotcha homie ! Rec'd for humility and for sheer volume of ....

…. substances consumed . Is that a per game number or season totals ? LOL !!!

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Per game!

gotta have a sense of humor.
I do believe the Lions will win this Sunday. Don’t hold that against me too much.

In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot

by JazzyBBP on Sep 9, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Lions are your team man ....

…. so you gotta go into every game thinkin win , otherwise what kind of fan would you be ?! And if thats your per game ritual I hope you got 911 on speed dial !

And I respectfully disagree on the winner of this game ……. like I said in another post I say Bears 27-24 , we win on a last second Robbie " Solid " Gould FG .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

HEy!!! There's only room for one semi-plagiarist on this site...

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 10, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol

I was thinking the same thing… Too funny!

by rdent4hof on Sep 10, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

This site is all yours, I'm just visiting this week lol

In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot

by JazzyBBP on Sep 10, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

With all due respect...

… The post was a comparison of similar units, am I mistaken?

It compared Cutler to Stafford, Lions DL to Bears DL, etc…

… It didn’t compare Bears OL vs Lions DL as our new writer NiqueBears wrote up HERE. So I think we have a bit of confusion right there.

Secondly, the original article suggested that Cutler has a longer resume and more accomplishments than Stafford:

Cutler is more experienced and has more wins in the NFL than Stafford. He also has a better passer rating over his career and last season.

… So, how does one go from that, to this?

Indications are that we might have a big edge here and even though Cutler has the edge in experience, wins, and overall success in the league I think all of that will be more than canceled out by the struggles and lack of confidence he has in the Bears new offense.

  I’m confused.

I’ll stop because I think you are defending the wrong position. The writer implied that the Lions QB is better than the Bears QB; not that the Lions QB will have a better day against the Bears defense than Bears QB vs. Lions defense.

It just seems that you feel because good players had a sub-par season that one should assume this is the trend. If that is the case wouldn’t it be fair to assume that the Lions will go 2 wins or fewer in 2011— because that’s their trend, right?

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 9, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well when i compared them position to position a couple of things came up

Obviously the hard ones to call are QB, RB, and DL

QB: Normally Cutler would win but that is based on past performance. It is clear that while he thrived under Shanahan he has struggled in Chicago. He simply is not the same QB with the Bears. I believe he struggled last year because there is no dominant physical receiver on the Bears that can go up and fight for the ball. He really missed Brandon Marshall. While your your receivers are generally under estimated they are all small the most talented ones (Knox and Hester) are both smaller speed types. He does not have that go to guy there and that hurts him. The horrible offensive line also is paying into that and lack of a run game. To make matters worse a new offense is coming in that is very complex and hard to get down quickly. When asked what makes the Martz offense so hard Cutler replied by saying “just the sheer volume of plays”. Basically I think Jay is a talented quarterback but it is the team around him that is holding him back. When you guys meet the Lions later in the year I might be more inclined to think Cutler will do better but that will largely depend on how well the team is transitioning to the Martz offense and if you guys can beg, borrow, or steal some help on the offensive line.

For Stafford it is almost the complete opposite. The Lions have added several weapons to help free up Calvin Johnson. Nate Burleson, Tony Scheffler, Jahvid Best, and Rob Sims were all big upgrades. Across the board the Lions have improved their WR, TE, RB, and OL where the Bears chose to only add Chester Taylor. Even in that case Jahvid Best is the bigger upgrade. Where Chester Taylor is a solid backup and a good 3rd down back he simply is not the threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball that Best is.

I think I hit on the whole RB thing right there. While Forte is coming off injury so is Kevin Smith so they pretty much cancel each other out. If you remember early on in free agency Detroit was the place everyone thought Taylor would go. Everyone knows that he wants to be a 1st string running back and prove that he can do it. The fact that he chose Chicago over Detroit speaks volumes about where he thought his chances would be better. Forte is probably the worst back of the names mentioned and likely will lose his starting job by the end of the year to a career backup.

The DL I covered elsewhere, basically Peppers is not good enough to cover the gap that the other 3 guys create in talent.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 9, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Forte is probably the worst back of the names mentioned and likely will lose his starting job by the end of the year to a career backup.

- You can’t call Chester Taylor a career backup, just because he has always played behind other high-caliber running backs. A back-up is someone who replaces a palyer at a certain position. Taylor, on the contrary, has served as an effective complement over the course of his career.Inact, Minnesota ran a large portion of their plays on third down with him. His average has always been a respectable 4.3, and he can put up very solid rushing stats if given to play a full game as a starter.

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

by GriggsBriggs on Sep 9, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I heard on NFL Live

Either yesterday or today that Taylor had 26 catches on third down last year. Think they said he led the league for running backs.

WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!

by Acreman20 on Sep 9, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will say this about Taylor and I hinted on it in my original write up on the Lions site

The biggest surprise this year in Chicago is going to be the running game and I attribute that to Taylor. But I don’t see any real upside to him over Best. Granted they are both different backs but I give Best the edge over Taylor because of his explosion. Best is to running backs what Hester was to returns back before he converted to a receiver. Forte and Smith are actually very similar runners, pretty much a wash there for me. Both were banged up last year and both have something to prove this year.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 9, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

So Forte sucks ehhh ?? Well then that means your ...

….. defense must really suck because even with him being injured his still put 100 + yards in both meetings last season ( 28 carries for 222 and 1TD YPC 7.8 ) . Cutler too you say ?? Well your D let him rip it up in the two games we played last season . Jay threw for a grand total of 417 yards and 6 TD’s aginest your D ( 40-64 for 417 & 6 TD’s O INT’s ) . So my guess is your really tryin to tell us through your statments of how much they suck is your defense REALLY sucks it up if two nobodys like Cutler and Forte can smash it like that . So what ya got to say to that blue boy ?

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

We will see sunday

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

That works for me .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lets hope for a great game and no injuries!

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

That we can agree on my man !!!!!

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 9, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Every position on the D line has been upgraded this year for the Lions

Along with adding an incredibly talented Suh in the middle who has seen nothing but double teams the entire preseason.

I fully expect the Lions run defense to be markedly improved over last season.

If i have to drink too much bleach trying to clean away the nightmare of another awful D Line this season I am not sure I will survive.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

true enough that the D-Line has been upgraded, but the...

hiring 4 female midget soccer players would probably have been an upgrade for the Lions D Line, so saying you’ve upgraded isn’t exactly saying much. I like Suh, but lets not anoint him a superstar until he actually performs like one. The league is full of GMs who regret that awesome first round D-Linemen (And wideouts in Detroit’s case) that was supposed to be the sure bet and ended up being a good bet to be bagging groceries in two years.

That being said,m i would bet on Suh being the opposite. But still, I won’t crown him until he proves it.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 9, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, i fully agree with you there

Suh has not proven anything yet. He has all the tools and that nasty streak Detroit has missed on their D line for oh so long. As of right now, he has all the potential to be anything he wants. Now we have to see if he achieves it.

The thing about him that strikes me. He is 300 pounds but he is not some muscular roid popping jug head and there is no fat to be found on him either. He is a massive man top to bottom with a ton of room to build more strength.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

forte did light up the D LAST year

It was one of his few solid performances. The problem is that was against a very very different D. That said, I like Forte more than the other Lions fans posting. The problem is who is making the holes for him? That’s also the biggest problem facing Cutler. It’s not that Cutler is bad whatsoever, it’s the line really is just that bad. I think that in itself is reason enough to favor Stafford over Cutler in their respective systems. How easy will it be for Cutler to drop 5 let alone 7 regularly when facing just this years front 4? I can’t wait until Sunday to put it to fact rather than speculation (based off the not so worthless preseason shifts we saw)

They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!

by Ee Oulo on Sep 10, 2010 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

The fact that he chose Chicago over Detroit speaks volumes about where he thought his chances would be better.

I think it just speaks volumes about his taste. High-decibel, Dolby-esque volumes.

by oripunk3485 on Sep 9, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

But, to say that a 2nd year Stafford with 9 games of NFL experience is better than a 4 year pro bowler is absurd! If you would have said that “the Lions passing game will be better than the Bears passing game” then maybe that’s something we can debate in length and doesn’t sound too bias. The Lions DO have a passing attack and I think it is one of the strong suits of the team.

Then, to say that the Lions DL is better than the veteran-led Bears DL is a bit biased as well. KVB was NOT the prize of 2010 offseason; Peppers was. Suh, as good as people are making him out to be, is in his first year and has not played against some of the top Centers in the league— meet 6X pro bowler Olin Kruetz! Tommie Harris has played against Raiola for years and knows what to expect. Harris is also one of the better Tackles in the NFL, who has a lot to prove in 2010 himself, but has a track record of success. I think we can say a “NONE” is fair; not LIONS ADVANTAGE? that’s homer!

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Forte can’t touch him, Taylor cant touch him. In fact unless you put Hester on defense no one on the field is going to catch him. If you want to hang your hat on a 30 year old, retread, backup who is actually better than you starter last year then you go ahead and do that. You might get 1 good year out of him, maybe.

- Forte doesn’t need to touch him, and neither does Taylor. We’re not talking about who has how many years left, or on their belt. Stop trying to divert people away from your foolish belief by bashing both of our running backs. They have proven they can be succesfull in a variety of situations, and both handle large work loads. You can’t compare them side to side to a rookie back and claim he is absolutely superior to them. Having confidence in a rookie is one thing; claiming that he is untouchable is stupidity. Oh and while you’re at it, have fun admiring him now, because without a legit force to take the load off of him, he just might be limping next year. <- Bears fans have a first hand account with Forte.

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

by GriggsBriggs on Sep 9, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

you

make an excellent point with “Oh and while you’re at it, have fun admiring him now, because without a legit force to take the load off of him, he just might be limping next year. <- Bears fans have a first hand account with Forte.”

I’m not the only Lions fan praying the temper the reliance on Best in the run game. Thankfully there is A LOT of solid receiving options as well as some marginal or better running options. Let’s hope Best doesn’t get nicked like Forte did and also lets hope Forte doesn’t get nicked again like he did.

They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!

by Ee Oulo on Sep 10, 2010 3:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Well, I'd probably make an exception for Favre.

Not sure how much hatred there is for him amongst Lions fans, but it runs pretty deep around these parts.

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 10, 2010 5:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lions fans have a special hate for the Packers and Favre

Him coming into the league was the end of us winning the NFC North and the Beginning of getting our ass kicked twice a year for a very long time. To make matters worse, the Packers were our biggest rival in the 50’s and 60’s with the whole Alex Karras and Dick the Bruiser thing.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 10, 2010 5:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Football would be even more interesting

If you were allowed to actively try to give Charlie Horses.

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Sep 10, 2010 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice!

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

He wants to make barnyard folly porn

In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot

by JazzyBBP on Sep 10, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who did that?

Griggs was saying that when you rely heavily on ONE BACK to carry the load, as we did with Forte, injury is a huge concern.

The Bears have TWO backs who could start ANYWHERE in the league. This is why I thought your ADVANTAGE LIONS was biased. After Best (who hasn’t proven anything as of yet), who else can the lions call on to carry the football?

Advantage should have been Bears.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair to the Smurf and the Lions...

Kevin Smith was a rookie last year who, before getting hurt, played pretty well, and Maurice Morris got a hundo on us last year…

by Steven Schweickert on Sep 10, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the fact that Taylor has spent considerable time as a backup makes this statement false alone
The Bears have TWO backs who could start ANYWHERE in the league.

If a healthy Forte is any better than a healthy Kevin Smith it is marginal. It will be proven out this year what Best is but I have seen enough to know he is great. Injury is the only concern there. And I have seen great running backs in Detroit before. I watched Billy Sims and Barry Sanders, not to mention I watched quite a bit of Walter Payton in the day. Best is better than Sims, not as good as Sanders, but he is the real deal and better than any running back in the NFC North not named Peterson.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 10, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Would you start CT

over Jamal Lewis in his prime or Adrian Peterson? No? Me neither. Starter quality doesn’t always mean starter.

by Steven Schweickert on Sep 10, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

Matt Forte is a better all-around back than Kevin “Always Broken” Smith. Better blocker, better catcher out of the backfield, and a solid runner.

Even if you feel that way…

… Kevin Smith is not playing on Sunday, so how would he factor into Sunday’s contest!???

It was biased— admit it. :-)

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 11, 2010 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Vanden Bosch had a whopping three sacks last year

And Peppers is actually great in run support which may be why teams run away from him. Corey Wooten is not even a starter on our line and the two co-starters combined for more sacks last year than Avril in part time roles. Suh may look dominant in pre-season but I remember a certain team go 4-0 in pre-season only to do um.. not so well in the regular season.

by DaHamsta on Sep 9, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Vanden Bosch Like all DE was a far less effective player once Fat Albert left.

Detroit has a new younger player that eats up double teams much like he did, Suh can handle that job no problem. Not to mention, occasionally try to unscrew a QBs skull once in a while.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

KVB wasn't...

Consistently good with Fat Albert around, though. Sorry, but I wouldn’t put KVB in the same league with Peppers or Allen, But I would put him in the same catagory as Ogunleye at this point in his career. Decent gap-stop, but not great and only a band-aid.

Suh will make the line, as a whole, better, though. That’s my prediction, anyways.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 9, 2010 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, i agree with you.

KVB is not in the same league as Peppers or Allen. Frankly, if he was he would not be playing for Detroit. He would have taken an even bigger contract to play else where.

He is what he is, an average plus to great DE depending on the players around him. His leadership and drive have been the biggest impact he has had on the team so far. His motor is amazing.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

KVB may have only had 3 sacks, but he had 53 pressures, he just needs to convert more

The guy is not as talented as Peppers no, and as a pure pass rusher he will not get as many sacks. If Peppers really fixed his run game issues we will find out. But I actually rated Peppers higher than KVB, it is the other three I give the nod over the Bears.

Let me put it this way. Game three preseason is the dress rehearsal. Guys jobs are on the line. Joe Thomas was playing for the Browns, they had all their starters in on a top 5 in the league pass blocking line, and Suh still beat their double team and got to Delhome.

You guys can say that preseason means nothing but that is not true at all. Guys are fighting for their jobs out there, at least on good teams they are. The offenses might be vanilla, the defenses might be vanilla, coaching schemes don’t come into play as much, starters don’t play as long, etc etc. But to say that preseason is useless when evaluating talent is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. If it is so useful then why the hell would ever coaching staff in the league be evaluating talent to decide who to keep and who to cut? I never based my complete analysis off one preseason. I looked at last season and seasons before too. It is about a complete body of work of a player or group of players and the further in the past one gets the less relevant it is.

To say though that preseason don’t matter at all is wishful thinking on your part. I see a lot of concern in the Bears faithful regarding the offensive line and the numerous draft busts here on your site. What it is acceptable for you guys to say they suck but not me? LoL Whatever Chicago Superfans. I am no more guilty of Kool-aid and homerism than anyone calling me out.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 9, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

you nailed it

Peppers is undoubtedly the superior DE of the 4 starting. After him there isn’t as vital concern for blockers and that’s where there’s the advantage to the Lions D line/ rush threat.

Most importantly if anyone can’t see how the kool-aid runneth over on the Bears side as well it’s just sheer team loyalty blindness… It’s hard to escape that for any fan tho!

They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!

by Ee Oulo on Sep 10, 2010 4:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kool-aid over here?

Have you paid attention to ANYTHING on this site since August 12th or so?

by Steven Schweickert on Sep 10, 2010 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Look at posts/articles and tell me where the "kool-aid" is?

We are pessimistically hopeful over here and PROUD OF IT!

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

well, have a season of tears then a season of two wins

Anything after that is Genuine hope! And we are proud of it too!

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

But, there was no talent there.

Millen (we can say his name here) was HORRIBLE and did not service the needs of that team at all. All the weapons a QB could want, but no offensive line or defense to protect the lead. He consistently put bad teams on the field for years! (I don’t have to remind you of that, I’m sure)

2001, the Bears were a playoff team and won 13 games. Angelo comes in and things go down hill. 2005 we won 11 with the same team that was here BEFORE Angelo. 2006, the Bears go to the Superbowl…

… 3 straight season afterwards, the team looks no better than a team that might be rebuilding. That’s disappointing to a fan bse who just saw a SB appearance in 2006.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I live in Chicago now, Still a Lions fan first and always will be.

I want the Bears to have a great season outside of two games.

I just see the moves being made by Angelo as acts of desperation because of his poor drafting past in an attempt to fill holes. He is trying to keep his job and in the process he is torturing his fan base.

I am not sure where but on another post someone posted that during Angelo’s drafts the obscene number of picks he has sank into the D line and DE positions during his tenure. After all those picks the bears are forced to spend what? 100 million on a DE.

Like Millen with his fan base, I think Angelo is trying to slowly kill all Bears fans.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was ME who posted that. haha!

… And you are absolutely correct.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 10, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reality just called trying to remind you that Best is a rookie.

With precisely zero meaningful NFL touches. Yeah he’s fast. Yeah he had a great college career. I went to Cal and I would remind you of a fella named JJ Arrington. Dominant runner in college, zilch in the pros. We all understand Lions fans are excited – who wouldn’t be after the sheer embarassment from the last couple of years. Just don’t wet your britches before the season has even started.

by oripunk3485 on Sep 9, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly....College greatness does not equal pro greatness....

Adrian Peterson = College’s all time leading rusher and scorer when he was drafted. Not Minnesota’s, but Formerly Chicago’s/Now Seattle’s AP. How’d that work out in the NFL?

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 9, 2010 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am just as hyped to see Best in the regular season as anyone

His 51 yard scamper on the opening play of the third game and 10 yard reception on the next play were amazing, both against starters BTW. He shows a ton of potential and right now that is all it is. It is still enticing to dream of a decent RB in Detroit’s backfield again.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 9, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can certainly understand that......

I’d be hyped about Best, if he were a Bear. But I’d still refrain from calling him “better” than any of the leagues established players without actually having seen him play a few meaningful downs.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 9, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

AP as a rookie once, so was LT, so was CJ2K

I am not afraid to go out on a limb and make a call. I have seen enough in my eyes of all the runners to feel comfortable about that. If I am wrong then so be it.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 9, 2010 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can respect your fandom, sir. I like.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 10, 2010 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Best brings something desperately needed in the NFL

I am not saying he is the first by any means. Just saying, NFL players are getting bigger and faster. As a result, players that are “quick” can make a huge difference for a team. It does not mean a thing if a LB is 245lbs and runs a 4.5-4.6. If he is trying to tackle a “quick” guy more often than not he is going to be beaten. That is why CJ2K did so much damage.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Best was out rushed by Cutler.

Again, I thought the rushing combo of Forte and Taylor would be better than Best and “?”.

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Um...

The adults are trying to have a conversation here. Now run along and watch out for the cars.

"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson; "More bell cow" - Lovie Smith

by Pete Dixon on Sep 9, 2010 3:48 PM CDT reply actions  

I have one thing to say

Corp!!!

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 9, 2010 3:52 PM CDT reply actions  

This is very amusing
The bad news for them is that no one else on their roster can be. The Lions have a clear edge here but I don’t know how much of a disadvantage for the Bears that really is since the Martz offense does not rely on anything but blocking from the tight ends. Edge Lions.

No one can block for the Bears at the TE position? Clark and Manu are both great blockers, while Davis is an up and comer. Olsen looked decent and better than the past few seasons.

"In order to have a winner, the team must have a feeling of unity; every player must put the team first- ahead of personal glory" - motivational sign at Halas Hall.

by propheteer on Sep 9, 2010 5:17 PM CDT reply actions  

This post is pretty amusing. :)

WILDCARD BITCHES!!! YEEEEHHHAAAAA!!!!!

by Acreman20 on Sep 9, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

lulz

2005 Chicago White Sox. 2006 Chicago Rush. 2008 Philadelphia Phillies. 2009-10 Chicago Blackhawks. CHAMPIONS.

by HappyHuman on Sep 9, 2010 9:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Wow....

Several things about this whole thread is hilarious

First of all, I love how Chicago fans love to rationalize things with hypocrisy. You defend your team this year by saying how preseason means nothing and it doesn’t count. Yet your best bash on Detroit is talking about our prior losing seasons. We have redone almost our entire defensive roster while adding explosiveness on offense. So your references to the prior seasons are a desperate reach so you dont have to accept the fact that Chicago is gonna be at the bottom of the NFC North this year and probably for years to come

Secondly, If you really want to look at prior seasons then be my guest. Last time I checked, you have a couple of the coaches that helped run Detroit into the ground. We were smart enough to cut our losses with them and move on. Chicago is hiring our garbage that couldn’t even keep their jobs in Detroit.

Third, lets evaluate some talent now. Your best receiver would be nothing more than our slot receiver. Forte had a great year his rookie year, but he is still unproven. Many RB’s have good 1st years as starters and then they fade away. Look at Slaton, Lynch, K. Smith, etc. So until he proves he can do it again, he has no more credibility than Best. Cutler may be a better QB than Stafford, but not in a read and react pass offense that Martz likes to run. That offense is not suited for his skillset and if you cant see that, then you need some glasses that arent rose colored.

by grimy0185 on Sep 9, 2010 11:06 PM CDT reply actions  

You're drinking some strong kool-aid....

The Lions’ secondary still isn’t much improved. Cutler tore them up last year in both games. If he gets even slightly below average protection, the Lions are toast. Your entire first paragraph is a desperate reach. We’re referencing whole regular seasons…..you’re continually bringing up this preseason.

Millen ran the Lions into the ground. You seriously cannot say otherwise.

So because Forte only had one good year in the league that means he has less credibility than an unproven rookie who’s never had ANY good years in the league? He still was tops in the league in receiving last year for a running back.

What are you….Cutler’s psychiatrist? How do you know what suits him and what doesn’t suit him? He’s a quarterback with a cannon for an arm, his job is to throw the football. I personally think he’ll do really well this year.

by xshwanger on Sep 11, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Attention Detroit fan: what you have is something called potential.

You’ve actually had potential evey year, but it hasn’t panned out. I’m aware that you’ve made some exciting moves and added to your roster. Unfortunately, most of those additions are rookies. If you’re hoping for “best collection of college talent,” then you’re well on your way. They may have all kinds of potential and may be projected to be all kinds of awesome, but as of now, they’ve done almost nothing. Here are some more people who were really good in college. I think you may recognize some of the names.
Joey Harrington
Charles Rogers
Roy Williams
Mike Williams
Gosder Cherilus

Just to show that I’m not just picking on the Lions, here are a few more
Cade McNown
Rashaan Salaam
Curtis Enis
David Terrell
I’m not saying that you’re going to be awful (history does, but that’s besides my point). You may end up with a solid team, and you might even manage to knock us off on Sunday. My point is that you’ve got an awful lot of “ifs” and “mights” and “coulds” and not a goddamn thing else to go with it (except Calvin Johnson who scares the shit out of me). Until you manage to accomplish ANYTHING AT ALL, maybe you shouldn’t be running around beating your chests and crowing in enemy territory. And just in case you’re unsure, cheap-shotting Jake Delhomme does not count as an accomplishment.

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 10, 2010 1:21 AM CDT reply actions   2 recs

Almost forgot... GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 10, 2010 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well since you mentioned Calvin, and your lawn, this came to mind

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 10, 2010 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like it

Cuz it’s glittery. I shall allow it.

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Sep 10, 2010 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

LoL thanks, I didnt mean it in a bad nature, sorry if you guys got offended.

I wanted to find a way to represent Calvin Johnson peeing on the lawn in reply to the Clint Eastwood post. Not trying to be a troll. Id rather have a good nature about stuff and be able to laugh about it and have the friendly kind of jabs than get nasty with each other.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 10, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great call

glittery is cool

In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 10, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

touche

But you do have to admit, there really are a lot of ifs that are hard not to be excited about? On the topic of ifs, in 14 games this season I’d love to see Cutler be an effective passer for Chicago without all the mental mistakes IF only that could happen! What IF Knox could really break out and tear it up this year, I’d love to see it in 14 games. What IF Forte can bounce back? What IF Peppers had a good year for once right after signing? What IF well what IF we have a great game to watch on Sunday :)

They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!

by Ee Oulo on Sep 10, 2010 4:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I have no misconceptions, and I'm hardly an optimist.

If we end up as a five-win team I won’t be shocked. Really pissed, but not shocked. I also realize we could end up behind you at the end of the season, but that’s not my point. All I’m saying is before you walk into someone’s house waving a gun around, you might want to make sure it’s loaded. And yes, I realize this particular post was started by one of our members, but there have been comments prior to this.

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 10, 2010 5:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

It is hard to read anything past GriggsBriggs post above
Lol it wouldn’t hurt putting some sense into this guy anyway

because it all seems to have the strike line through it :P But I am a Lions fan, I am resilient, so I shall persist anyhow! Look it is this simple. I am a Lions fan, they are 0-0, I may never have an opportunity to talk smack like this again through out my whole season, so you bet damn well I am going to take advantage of it while I can! On top of that I have not been able to display my team pride nor confidence in my team such as this in literally years. So you all are gonna have to forgive me if I seem a bit over zealous. As Sam Cook once said, “It’s been a long time comin, but change is gonna come”.

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 10, 2010 5:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thats it!

For the first time in a decade there is light at the end of the tunnel. There is something to be excited about. We are probably going to suck it up for the better part of the season but that suckyness shall pale in comparison to the catastrophic, bleach drinking, grand mother chasing your child self around the front yard threatening to skin you alive with a butter knife nightmares that happened in the past.

Wow, that went off the deep end. Long and short of it. We have suffered and finally the shackles seem to be loosening.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol Well said. Don't forget though,

sometimes that light is coming from Norfolk-Southern.

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 11, 2010 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

On a more serious non-football related note,

I realize Sam Cook wasn’t a Detroit guy, but could you all get back to bringing up more musicians like him and less like Kid Rock? Please???

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 11, 2010 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hey everybody, I fixed it.

So you can, y’know, actually read this ish.

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Sep 10, 2010 7:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Woot Thanks!

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 10, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good. Was making things a little difficult.

Especially since those cs’ers never let me have my coffee break last night. I was seriously draggin ass when 7am finally rolled around.

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 11, 2010 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

yawn

That junk has been spewed so many times. It does not even hurt anymore……..

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

On the record

 I think they can beat us, just that they aren’t going to be as good as some fans think they will be.

"Boozer's dumbass dunked, so i dunked on his dumbass"- Joakim Noah

by T.Moore on Sep 10, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Most of us Lions fans are thinking 5-6 wins

if my fuzzy math is right, thats 150-200% improvement! Woo-hoo!!!

In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot

by JazzyBBP on Sep 10, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

lmao

Fuzzy math, are you already dipping into the game day “recreational” materials again Jazzy?

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Every day is game day! lol

In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot

by JazzyBBP on Sep 10, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've actually been one of your non-fans saying that you guys could end up

being a dangerous team. Then you all had to come over here and agree with me, so I had to start ranting and wallowing in my own hypocrisy. Thanks guys, thanks.

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 11, 2010 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well I think it is a matter of perspective

6-10 for the Bears fan base is a disappointment, 6-10 for the Lions fan base is exciting! LoL!

Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!

by Evilsmurf on Sep 10, 2010 1:33 PM CDT reply actions  

I keep saying it and it's going to happen Evil

We are going from 4th to 2nd this year!!!!! Sorry Bears fans be we are passing Favre and the Vikes this season, he should have stayed retired!

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Sep 10, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

I think the Lions have a realistic chance at being 2nd in the division this year. No disrespect intended toward the bears but I think we take both games this year. I think we may steal one from the Viqueens. We should be able to handle buffalo as well. I also dont think it is a reach to say we beat the Rams. I can also see us beating Tampa. Those are six games that I believe we should win and if we can find a way to win 2 more, I think 8-8 takes 2nd place in the division. Like I said, Im on a little bit of Kool-Aid but its not out of the realm of possible

by grimy0185 on Sep 10, 2010 1:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Lions fan here

If the Lions manage to finish 8-8 I will finally put down the gallon bottle of bleach and return it to its proper place in the laundry room.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's also possible

That I could land a supermodel and the cubs would win the world series. I don’t see either of those happening any time soon.

by Steven Schweickert on Sep 10, 2010 3:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Dude, just stop at Supermodels 'R' Us

They have one in each of the former USSR countries, several in the Asian countries and I heard they are building on in Brazil now.

Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.

by joshsun on Sep 10, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was at an adult club in Key West one time

where the entertainers were…uh..“imported”. It creeped me out.

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Sep 10, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Creepy enough that you felt the need to hang around

and investigate thoroughly, I imagine.

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Sep 11, 2010 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is why there is Kool-Aid

Marshall is up on #23 ranked WVU 14-3 at halftime and has been dominating the line of scrimmage. That alone gives me hope for the Lions

by grimy0185 on Sep 10, 2010 7:48 PM CDT reply actions  

And they lost in OT ..... hope crushed .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Sep 10, 2010 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haha.

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Sep 10, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man, you Lions fans...

Sure have more interest in talking trash and trolling than talking football.

So until further notice, The Detroit Lions.

That is all. Have a good night.

by Steven Schweickert on Sep 11, 2010 12:15 AM CDT reply actions  

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let the record show I absolutely hate waiting 24 hrs. to post on different NFL sites on SBNation.
But on to my point now — ChicagoMarine, I think you’re overrating your RBs just a bit:

The Bears have TWO backs who could start ANYWHERE in the league.

Matt Forte (if plays like he did as a rook) is a very capable RB who could probably start most places, but not a top ten RB. Maybe top 15, maybe. Also, I think you are overrating Chester Taylor just a bit. If he were a starter, he’d be starting, not backing up…simple as that. He’s probably the number one number 2 in the league, which brings my next point — he’s an A+++++ complement to Forte for the Bears. Taylor is going to be playing virtually the same exact role as he did in Minnesota, and the Martz System factor is greater than or equal to the Favre factor as far as Taylor’s production is concerned. The real question here is the Forte, can he get back to his “old” ways? I’m betting so as Taylor should allow him to do just that. BUT, if he goes down with an injury, I doubt Taylor can hold down the fort for more than a couple weeks, he’s not a work horse at all.
All being said, the Bears running attack could be dangerously under the radar at this point, and it could prove to be a dynamite-caliber spark for the Bears this season. If they can be successful, it could allow the OL to have better pass protection for Cutler, which would really work well for Cutler’s self esteem. I have to give the Bears an easy but not overbearing advantage over my Lions’ RBs, however, I do think the Lions have a higher ceiling for potential. Best looks like a Chris Johnson replica and if Smith can stay healthy, he runs like a mad man and could give us a real Smash and Dash type 1-2 punch.

JF
"To me, that’s what we need – explosive, hard-hitting guys that want to be like Delmas. Have fun. Have fun practicing, have fun playing and be volatile. Give this city something to cheer about." - Lions DC Gunther Cunningham

by Lions Rant Artist on Sep 11, 2010 8:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Quick follow up

Here’s the way I see this matchup beforehand:
QBs: Bears slight advantage over Lions — Cutler was down quite a bit last year as he spent most of his time on his back, something that will NOT get better under Martz…proven fact. I’ve seen first hand Martz scheme and if things aren’t clicking, it is brutally ugly and unwatchable and a threat to a QBs confidence and health. Not to say Cutler is bad or nething, but with your OL, and the Martz scheme, I can’t predict a pro bowl year for him. Stafford has looked nothing short of spectacular this year (OTAs, Mini Camps, Preseason, EVERY practice). His accuracy is improved ten fold as he’s not trying to throw Joel Zumaya fastballs every throw. A full year of offseason work with the receivers, especially working hard with CJ to get that all star connection, has helped timing routes look crisp as well. Stafford is essentially everything that Jay Cutler is talent wise, with the only difference I see being that Stafford is a better locker room guy. Cutler is probably a better overall QB head-to-head, but I don’t think the weapons available are as good as the Lions weapons are. For this reason, I still give ChiTown the advantage, but not by a lot.
RBs: (see above)
WRs: Lions advantage clearly. CJ is CJ…you all know that. Top 5 talent in the league (not top 5 player, just talent, as it hasn’t transitioned completely yet stat wise). Burleson is a very capable #2 and the slew of backups in Detroit: Northcutt, Williams and Johnson, are also very capable of rotating in and out without breaking stride. The Bears have some nice pieces in their core — notably Knox, Aroush…whatever, and Hester, but no standout #1. That’s not to say that this core couldn’t gel completely and be the #1 core in the league with a little luck, but I just don’t think the odds for that are too great. The clear strengths for this squad is RAC and speed, but no real physical presence or go-to guy hurts too much at this point.
TEs: Advantage Lions slightly. I believe Olsen is the best on both teams but behind him are blocking TEs that won’t contribute significantly in any one game (over the course of the season, it could prove to be a key factor, but definitely not in game one). The major reasoning here for my Lions advantage is Mike Martz. TEs have no major place in his system and get lost for games at a time, just how it is when you’re looking for the biggest play every play. The Lions have two more than capable TEs in Sheff and Grew. Grew is a complete TE that suffered a season-ending knee last year. Before that he was really coming into his own. The addition of Sheffler should only help his comeback and progression throughout this year. Heller is a capable 3rd string blocking TE.
OL: Advantage Lions. Pretty much summed up well already. ProFootball Focus had a nice individualized ranking of every offensive lineman, critiqued much more in-depth than normal OL performance rankings. Much to my surprise, I found out the Lions OL wasn’t as bad as I thought. They ranked 20th in the league last year, and Backus, Peterman, Sims and Raiola ranked among the top 5 in their respected positions (LT, RG, LG and C) in the NFC. I can’t find them anymore on the sight for reference purposes, but I’m just going to assume they ranked better than the Bears. That and as I said above, Martz’s system isn’t exactly an OL paradise.

DL: Advantage none. Stated well above in other posts — basically, the Bears have Peppers and Harris to cancel the Lions potential factor and great depth.
LB: Clear advantage Bears. Lions are hurting without Levy especially and with Follett essentially being a rookie as a starter. Peterson is Peterson but that can’t compete with Briggs and Lurch.
DB: No advantage. A bunch of lame players surrounded by two top-caliber players. Delmas is the standout of all. A complete player with a truly spectacular demeanor. If you couldn’t tell from my signature, I hold Delmas in the highest regards as to his leadership and the way he carries himself on and off the field. Major Wright could be a standout for the Bears, but not starting kind of cancels him out of this contest as a threat. Maybe in the future, but not now. The Bears do have the more consistent lineup in the back 4, but the Lions have a scheme that is suited for the secondary which is why I call this a wash.

Special teams I really have no clue yet. Kickers and Punters are good on both teams, but the returners and tacklers and blockers have just been fully put together for both and you can’t really give a good assessment for special teams without previously seeing them play together. Hester hasn’t done anything since his rookie season (probably not his fault as I can imagine nobody dares kick one right to him) either.

All in all, I hate playing in Soldier Field since the greatest blunder in OT history (see: Marty Morningweg chooses defense in OT coin flip victory) and I just hope none of our stars get hurt on either team.

My completely biased prediction (is there really another type in these situations?): Lions 33, Bears 24.

JF
"To me, that’s what we need – explosive, hard-hitting guys that want to be like Delmas. Have fun. Have fun practicing, have fun playing and be volatile. Give this city something to cheer about." - Lions DC Gunther Cunningham

by Lions Rant Artist on Sep 11, 2010 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry that wasn't nearly as quick as I thought it would be... :)

JF
"To me, that’s what we need – explosive, hard-hitting guys that want to be like Delmas. Have fun. Have fun practicing, have fun playing and be volatile. Give this city something to cheer about." - Lions DC Gunther Cunningham

by Lions Rant Artist on Sep 11, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

No worries

… And I respect your opinion.

Again, Lions fans discredit a two-year starter who was rookie of the year worthy in Matt Forte for a guy who has not ran the ball in one regular season game— let alone season. You also discredit the skill and body of work that Chester Taylor has done in his time. His 3rd down conversion pct%, blocking ability, and ability to rush as a starter is unheard of for a 2nd back on a team.

But, as I said…

… The enthusiasm and “juice” is flowing in Michigan and I can not be mad at that. You guys deserve it.

Here’s to a good game on Sunday! :-)

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 11, 2010 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Soooo, about those running backs?

Cutler had more rushing yds than Best on Sunday.

Just saying…

Semper Fi
PREDICTION for 2010-2011 NFL Season: "The England Patriots will finish 8-8 plus or minus 1" ~8/13/10 1230p

by ChicagoMarine on Sep 13, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't discredit them

I just said they weren’t top ten league RBs. I actually said they were quite capable and complement each other very well. I said Forte is a top 15 talent for christ’s sake…what else do you want? a silver platter with a golden ranking card saying Forte is God’s Son and the Best things since sliced bread? Get over yourself man.

JF
"To me, that’s what we need – explosive, hard-hitting guys that want to be like Delmas. Have fun. Have fun practicing, have fun playing and be volatile. Give this city something to cheer about." - Lions DC Gunther Cunningham

by Lions Rant Artist on Sep 12, 2010 8:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Where
He’s probably the number one number 2 in the league, which brings my next point — he’s an A+++++ complement to Forte for the Bears. Taylor is going to be playing virtually the same exact role as he did in Minnesota, and the Martz System factor is greater than or equal to the Favre factor as far as Taylor’s production is concerned. The real question here is the Forte, can he get back to his "old" ways? I’m betting so as Taylor should allow him to do just that.

JF
"To me, that’s what we need – explosive, hard-hitting guys that want to be like Delmas. Have fun. Have fun practicing, have fun playing and be volatile. Give this city something to cheer about." - Lions DC Gunther Cunningham

by Lions Rant Artist on Sep 12, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Where does this discredit either of them?

And where did I say Best was better or even equal to either of your backs? I said they have a higher potential… but that’s obvious. Best put up HUGE numbers in college, and has shown in a couple of brief opportunities that he has big play talent. That is it. A higher potential. Not better. Not equal to. Just a higher ceiling. Jesus man.

JF
"To me, that’s what we need – explosive, hard-hitting guys that want to be like Delmas. Have fun. Have fun practicing, have fun playing and be volatile. Give this city something to cheer about." - Lions DC Gunther Cunningham

by Lions Rant Artist on Sep 12, 2010 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

lol......

your name is fitting, sir. ;)

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Sep 12, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

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