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Bears should extend Lovie Smith: Who'd you rather have?

 

I'll reiterate the opening from my earlier post (as seen here).  If the only argument you have in regards to Lovie Smith is he has no fire on the sideline then don't even bother.  Unless someone can show me a correlation between being animated on the sideline or in front of the press room podium and actually winning games, then I think that stance is flawed.  If all you really want from your head coach is more fire, then I could find a bunch of passionate Bears fans that would qualify for the job.

Star-divide

 

Mike Ditka didn't win because he had fire, he won because he and his coaching staff had a sound system in place.  And he won because he had some outstanding football players.  The bird flipping, the spitting, the cussing, and the larger than life personality had nothing to do with winning football games.  I'd love a hard nosed coach like Iron Mike on the Bears because that would be entertaining, but ultimately it's about winning games.  And if Lovie Smith's 4 winning seasons in 7 years, his 3 NFC North Championships, his .563 winning percentage (7th best among active Head Coaches), or his 2 NFC Championship game appearances isn't enough, that's fine.  But be careful what you wish for, because there aren't many "can't miss" coaches coaching today.

The name thrown out there by many as a potential replacement is Bill Cowher, and I do think Cowher is a heck of a coach.  But I also remember when Pittsburgh fans tried to run him out of town.  Cowher had a great start to his career, 6 straight playoffs and a Super Bowl appearance.  But then in 1998 he went 7-9 (3rd place), followed by 6-10 (4th), followed by 9-7 (3rd).  Three straight seasons of mediocrity.  The ownership wanted to stay the course, because that's what the Steelers do.  And they have one of the best franchises in sports because of it.  Cowher brought them back to two more playoffs before the six win (3rd place) 2003 season.  And the grumbling started up again, with many wondering if Cowher was the right coach to put them over the top.  They stayed the course and finally got their 5th Lombardi trophy in Bill Cowher's 14th season.

The Steelers have had 3 head coaches since 1969.  Before Cowher it was Chuck Noll that took them to 4 Super Bowl titles, and the last 4 years they've been led by Mike Tomlin who already has 1 championship and is back in the big game again.  A big part of what makes the Steelers a great franchise is because they look at the big picture in regards to their team.  I'm not saying the Bears should stay the course just for the hell of it, and that's what the Steelers do, but because Smith's record is actually good in context with his contemporaries.

Besides the Steelers, another team that's always in the hunt is the New England Patriots.  The Patriots are great because of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady.  Arguably one of the greatest coach/QB combos in the history of the game.  Coaches like Belichick just don't come around that often.  He was plucked from the Bill Parcells coaching tree, another great coach, so you would think if you just take someone that's coached with Belichick you should have some of the greatness follow to your franchise.  But think about all the failed head coaches that teams took from New England; Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Josh McDaniels, and Eric Mangini.  I wonder if the Baltimore Ravens franchise (then known as the Cleveland Browns) have any regrets from firing Belicheck after 4 losing seasons in 5 years.

The Colts have maintained playoff contention for most of the Peyton Manning years, and he's the biggest reason behind their success.  That's not to disparage the coaching of Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, and Jim Caldwell, but 11 playoff teams in 13 years for Manning is really good.

The Eagles are another team that has been near the top for most of Head Coach Andy Reid's tenure in Philadelphia.  In only 3 out of 12 years they missed the playoffs, and for some Philly fans it's not enough because he hasn't won the Super Bowl.

There are only so many truly great coaches out there.  Only 24 in the history of the NFL that has led their team to multiple championships.  And of those 24 I'd say less than half would be considered all time greats.  Should the Bears look for a all time great to run the team?  Are there any out there?

I could see the Bears wanting to take a wait and see approach with Lovie's contract, after all he does have 1 year remaining.  But coaching with a lame duck status rarely works out good.  Look at the Carolina Panthers last season.  John Fox was on the last year of his deal and Panthers didn't extend him.  I'm not saying that was the only reason behind their poor record, QB play would be my 1st guess, but you can't tell me it didn't have any effect.  Before the 2 win Panther debacle of 2010 John Fox had a .555 winning percentage, with just 3 losing seasons in 8 years.  After walking away from Carolina he was quickly hired to coach the Broncos.  If Fox an elite coach, I'd say no, but he's a solid NFL head coach.

If the Bears don't extend Lovie and the Bears have a poor record then you let him walk, no big deal.  But if he has a good season, then hits the open market, you may get into a bidding war.  I truly think keeping a staff in place is critical to long term franchise strength.  Would a change in coaching philosophy be best for their players, in particular Jay Cutler?  The kind of investment they made in Cutler would lead me to believe they want to keep things as they are.  He may never get to elite status as a QB even if things stay status quo, but I'd rather take my chances by keeping him in the same system.

Click here for part 3

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Jeff Fisher is now on the market...

…I can’t say that he is worse than Lovie, and he has strong ties with the Bears

by DaBikePro on Jan 28, 2011 9:12 AM CST reply actions  

Fisher has a .542 winning %

Is he really a better choice than Lovie because he was a Bear?

In his 17 years he’s made the playoffs 6 times, Lovie in 7 years has 3 playoffs
17 years for Fisher and 4 Division Championships, Lovie has 3 in 7

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Ding.

I don’t get this “He’s better than Lovie!” when… well… he hasn’t been except for being in the league longer.

by Steven Schweickert on Jan 28, 2011 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

I know that Lovie deserves an extension...

…but I have always been a fan of Fisher while he was coaching in Ten…and I have always disliked Lovie…Im just glad I don’t have to make the decision lol

by DaBikePro on Jan 29, 2011 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

you dislike Lovie yet think he should be extended

a very level headed way of thinking

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 29, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Les was ribbing you.

I’m pretty sure he was pointing you out as an example……

I could be wrong, but it seemed that way to me.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2011 1:26 AM CST up reply actions  

As soon as I wrote it I thought that too....

…and if he wasn’t…Im sorry…Im an idiot….

by DaBikePro on Jan 30, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I won't call you an idiot!

but I wasn’t giving you crap, I actually like that you can put personal feelings aside and state what you think is best in your opinion

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 30, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I can do that!

I personally like Smith a lot (about as much as possible for a guy we only know through the media). He seems like a great dude, and I would love to sit around with him on Sundays and watch the Bears with him. I love his media face, I love the way he defends his players, I love the way he responds to the 4th Phase, and I love the “You don’t rattle me” demeanor he carries. AND….

For all the complaints about his challenges, Lovie owns the single best challenge in the history of challenges.

But I can put aside my personal feeling and state what I think is best in my opinion!

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I loved that he challenged that play

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 30, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Best. Challenge. Ever.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2011 2:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't you wish the had an "edit" button here?

There have only been about 73488576 times that I could have used one. An nice edit button that is available until someone replies to your comment would be awesome. (allowing people to edit comments after people respond opens up too many integrity problems….“I didn’t say that! check it again, Idiot! Learn to read!”)

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2011 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

You know technically,

he is worst than Lovie but some fans aren’t going to let a silly thing like facts get in the way.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 28, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Shush you and your logic!

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 29, 2011 3:37 AM CST up reply actions  

The Continuity Issue

That’s probably the best reason to keep Lovie. The Bears have a good mix of youth and veteran players, which means they’re in good position to set themselves up for the future while maintaining success in the present. Keeping the staff in place (especially on offense) is the best way to move this team forward.

by NorthSideBearsFan on Jan 28, 2011 9:15 AM CST reply actions  

Fisher

I’d take Fisher in a heartbeat over Lovie.

by Chip Ramsey on Jan 28, 2011 9:16 AM CST reply actions  

Why?

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Fisher > Lovie

Because he is a smart head coach, whereas Lovie has proven over and over again, most recently in the NFC Champ game, that he is simply average. He is good with the players and all that but he is a very poor in game strategist that is constantly out coached and is apparently very stubborn towards change.

by Soldier Field Was Ruined on Jan 28, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

May we refer you to his coaching record

of which Lovie to this point has slightly superior results?

Fisher: 16 full seasons, six playoff berths, one Super Bowl loss, 8.81 wins per year on average.
Lovie: 7 full seasons, three playoff berths, one Super Bowl loss, 9 wins per year on average.

by Steven Schweickert on Jan 28, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

My Peyton Man-thing

May I refer you to perhaps the greatest QB of all time residing within Fisher’s division since 1998 and set a record recently for the most consecutive 10 win seasons, yeah that might have a little bit of an impact on wins and playoff berths. Lovie on the other hand has been in a relatively mediocre division for most of his tenure and does not have significantly better results. Now we have Rodgers to worry about for a long time….great.

I have watched enough Titans games to be able to clearly identify that Fisher is a much better and smarter head coach than Lovie and we all know that Wins and Losses does not always make this apparent. You do the best with what you have.

by Soldier Field Was Ruined on Jan 28, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

We have Rodgers

And had Favre. It’s the same thing, a division foe with a very good/great QB.

by Steven Schweickert on Jan 28, 2011 11:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Look, I'm not discounting the divisional/Manning effect by any stretch.

But Fisher’s teams performed well at times, especially in Manning’s division. 11-5 in ‘02, 12-4 in ’03, 10-6 in ’07 and 13-3 in ’08. And then it seems like it bottoms out, 5-11 in ’04, 4-12 in ’05, 6-10 this year. To say it’s “perhaps the greatest QB of all time residing in Fisher’s division since 1998” (wrong, by the way; the Oilers/Titans were in the AFC Central, then moved into the Colts’ division in the 2002 realignment) doesn’t explain at all the good records or the bottomed-out records. He’s had good teams, he’s had bad teams, it happens.

by Steven Schweickert on Jan 28, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

He's a good coach

And I wouldn’t mind him coaching the Bears, but at this point the Bears don’t need change.

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You just got served..

Adrian Pedestrian!! Now that's funny Mr. Bayless...

by Syndor on Jan 29, 2011 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Fisher coached 17 seasons, not 16.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 29, 2011 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

nevermind.......

missed the “full” part. My bad :(

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 29, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

For as often as I'm wrong,

I’m not going to penalize a guy for taking over a team midstream. :)

by Steven Schweickert on Jan 31, 2011 9:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I Think their track record is fairly similar given only that Jeff’s career is longer.

BEAR DOWN!!

by Pulyx on Jan 28, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Not exactly

In (tech) two of the toughest divisions in football-jeff fisher has found it hard to win consistently.

He couldn’t win 24-7 in the afc central: when the bully was pitt. He barely had a decent record when the bully was peyton manning.

Now he’s a good coach. Granted.

However lovie smith has done more in less time.

"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again."-Nathanael Greene.

by scorpio_x on Jan 28, 2011 11:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Extend him midseason?

I question becasue I don’t know the rules there. A win-win IMO since Chicago would have a gauge as to where the team is heading next season.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, 1/2 pack of cigarettes...it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.

by lastof12 on Jan 28, 2011 9:19 AM CST reply actions  

You got some good points.

That’s something to think about.

by Sirbrek on Jan 28, 2011 9:26 AM CST reply actions  

I say

Let him stay for the final year of his contract, if he can get the Bears back to the NFC Championship game, or better yet , the Super Bowl; Then he should get an extension.
Anything less than the NFCCG should result in not being extended

Devin Hester. 14 Koff/Preturn TDs in 5 seasons.

by suckmyditka on Jan 28, 2011 9:34 AM CST reply actions  

and if he decides to walk after his deal is up...

and the Bears are forced to start Cutler over with yet another system…

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

and if we go 5 wins

And our offense continues ranking in the bottom of the NFL?

by TheMan1 on Jan 28, 2011 11:25 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

then you fire him and eat the cost.

Angelo is here through 2013. Give Lovie two years and match them up. Its already a package deal.

Corey Wootton, the Favre Slayer.

by Brendan Hess on Jan 28, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

The only thing worse than changing systems every year

Is being in the wrong system alltogether. Players’ careers are only so long, which is why coaching changes should be done very carefully. 1 mistake could put an organization years behind where they previously where.

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

by GriggsBriggs on Jan 28, 2011 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Same here

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

by GriggsBriggs on Jan 28, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Cowboys

The Cowboys is another example. When they first came into the league with Tom Landry as head coach, they played like an expansion team. Within a few years they became perrenial winners. They became “America’s Team”. Landry created a great system not only for on the field but also for developing talent. One of the positives was the consistancy. When Jerry Jones bought the Cowboy he released Landry and while they have had some success, the Cowboy’s haven’t really lived up to the success they enjoyed while Landry and company were in place. Look at the number of head coaches since Landry’s exit. I’m sure releasing Landry wasn’t the only reason for there fall from the elite, front office changes have also played a part. But, his constistant system worked, not only in replacing player but also coaches. When the Bears took Ditka away from Dallas to be Da’ Coach, the Cowboys didn’t miss a beat.

by Sirbrek on Jan 28, 2011 9:39 AM CST reply actions  

While I agree with your sentiment

the Cowboys have been far more successful without Landry. They won 1 super Bowl with Landry and within 10 years of Jones’ ownership, they had won 3 more. I’d take 3 over that amount of time compared to 1 over Landry’s 29 years.

I know you're curious Joseph, you're at that age, and you often forget to delete your internet history.

by jimribs on Jan 28, 2011 9:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Tom Landry won 2 Super Bowls

and led his team to 5…

Jimmy Johnson replaced him and did a great job

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

And let's not forget Jimmy Johnson has great hair.

When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.
- Aldous Snow

by Ditkavsworld on Jan 28, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

keep lovie

I respect your OPINION but i also value the FACTS, To save time, lets just ASSume IM NEVER WRONG

by Tommy Ohyeah Mcduffie on Jan 28, 2011 9:43 AM CST reply actions  

Keep Lovie

Continuity wins in the NFL.
And Hiring previously winning Super Bowl Coaches is a lottery.
No Head coach has won Super Bowls with 2 different teams.
And it doesn’t seem like it’ll happen.

Most successful coaches in the NFL stay put for a reason.
And while some bad decisions and a massive ton of misfortune have put the bears in a shalow grave for 3 years, the fact that we Bounced back, with the aid of luck or not, it’s a very very good sign that most pieces are in place.

The bears could’ve gone 15-1 if we had an offensive line against the Giants and Seahawks and packers (at lambeau).
THAT’s how close we were. And that is pretty damn close if you ask me.

The bears staff this year ADJUSTED with incredible efficiency this year. Something i hadn’t seem the bears do in years.

So yeah.
I’m happy with lovie.
We could have worse. Cable, Mangini, Haley, Caldwell, Childress, McDaniels, Del Rio, Kubiak, Singletary… Look at how many stinky coaches.

BEAR DOWN!!

by Pulyx on Jan 28, 2011 10:04 AM CST reply actions  

I mean...

HOW could childress have failed with the vikings 09 team. That team was a machine.
Del Rio has wasted a franchise for YEARS.
Kubiak same thing.
Caldwell only wins because he has Peyton Manning.
Singletary is a legend but AWFUL head coach because he doesn’t know how to deal with people.
Haley is a douche who is one step from being McDaniels 2.0. When a good player comes out and blasts you point blank like Larry Johnson it’s got to be a bad sign. He fielded a damn good team last year, but he scared away Charlie Weiss after ONE season.

McDaniels doesn’t require explanation. If i was the Mayor of Denver i would have banned him from the city.

BEAR DOWN!!

by Pulyx on Jan 28, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

I have to interject here

I just have to defend Haley. Being in Kansas City, we hear a lot more to the story.

First of all, Larry Johnson is the worst example of a “good” player who blasts Haley. The guy was a bad apple from day one. Check his arrest record during his time as a Chief. And by the time Johnson was complaining, he wasn’t even close to his prime anymore. Compare Johnson’s bashing to Larry Fitzgerald’s praising of Haley. Not to mention every current Chief that stands behind him.

Another thing is the Charlie Weis deal. Nobody knows exactly what happened there, but based on perception, the so called experts ran with the story that Weis and Haley couldn’t get along. This was inspired by Jason Whitlock’s writings, yet people overlook Whitlock’s grudge that started when Scott Pioli took over as GM and took away a lot of the press’ freedoms at Arrowhead. Others claim that Weis and Pioli both knew that this might be a one year thing, but I guess that’s not the juicier story.

What is overlooked is that Haley weeded out the malcontents, installed a team-first mentality, and turned this team from cellar dweller to playoff team in only his second year. There’s a solid system in place I can assure you.

So for that I say I’d rather Have Haley than anyone on your list.

by old_school on Jan 28, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think

continuity wins. Talent wins, as long as there is good coaching behind it.

Jeff Fisher had more continuity than anyone in the NFL, and is a pretty good coach—but he never won anything. Mostly that’s because he didn’t consistently have enough talent.

Jim Caldwell took his team to the Super Bowl in his first year as coach, mostly because he had the talent (granted, he’s a different example because the coaching there was mostly unchanged).

I think talent evaluation wins in this league. The Colts, Patriots and Ravens win consistently because they have the best talent evaluators in the league. We have a mediocre GM running the show, and I don’t think we’ll ever consistently win, regardless of who the head coach is, until we get a better GM. You can’t swing and miss in the draft as often as he does and win consistently.

I don’t think Lovie is a great coach or a terrible coach, he’s jost okay in my opinion. Put him with a great GM and he’ll do a good enough job coaching to win (so long as he doesn’t have all the say in who his coordinators are—Lovie doesn’t seem to hire objectively, he hires his friends).

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jan 28, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

You're probably right.

But it’s still not a sure thing.
Look at the Chargers. They are one of the most talented teams in the league the last 5, 6 years.
And they don’t have a ring yet.

I think good coaching wins, and continuity is paramount for that to happen.
It’s the only way i can explain Green Bay success this year. They are talented, but Pack and steelers are the only 2 teams i’ve seen survive 15 players on IR and reach a super bowl on top of their game.

I don’t think that Angelo is a great GM and i think it hurts the Bears.
But i hardly think that Lovie is the problem.

Lovie is the right kind of coach for Chicago. We just need to work the kinks with the Coordinators and hope Angelo will have an inspired draft. (Because they’re rare)

BEAR DOWN!!

by Pulyx on Jan 28, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree that talent wins...

But at some point, there has to be a plan behind the talent; i.e., the scheme.

An old chess coach (begin nerd comments now!) once told me that a guy can be as masterful with moving pieces as he wants, but if he plays a guy that has a plan, 99% of the time, the guy with the plan will win.

If I had 53 very talented players, like All-Pros or something, and just told them to go recreate, I don’t think I’d win very many games.

But even if I had Ron Turner’s offensive scheme, and had less-talented overall players (not scrubs, let’s not get crazy here), but players that fit into the scheme and could execute the scheme, I’d say that team would win more games.

Martz’s scheme might not fit the roster as currently constructed, but now we have an offseason to work towards getting players that can fit in Martz’s scheme.

by Steven Schweickert on Jan 28, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

The Ron Turner O was in the SB led by the Great Rex Grossman!

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I just gagged a little

So many things wrong with that statement….

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Jan 28, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Rex was a guy with all the tools

Huge arm, decent athleticism. There was just something missing. Idk if it was his vision or what, but dude was beast in florida. Just couldn’t translate it to the pros

Devin Hester. 14 Koff/Preturn TDs in 5 seasons.

by suckmyditka on Jan 28, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Remember all the time he missed in 04-05

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."

by GriggsBriggs on Jan 28, 2011 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

So was Danny Wuerffel-

That Steve Spurrier offense was very much a ‘F8ck it I’m going deep’ offense.

The QBs would just throw the ball really far downfield, and the WRs would go find it. Fun to watch, but not exactly NFL-transferable.

by Dane Noble on Jan 28, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Injuries derailed Rex

I don’t know why he never got a pass for those injuries he suffered. Remember, his first serious injury was the knee that he hurt RUNNING for a TD in Minnesota. Then after the ankle was rolled in the preseason, he was never the same. But when he first got here, he definitely had that “it” factor. It’s just a shame that people don’t remember that.

Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!

by Dils on Jan 28, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree....

Between the “Good Rex, Bad Rex” media and the fall of his confidence that followed that, people forget how much potential Grossman actually had. I always thought that if GB, Indy or another patient team with the ability to develop had drafted Rex, he would have been a very good QB in the league.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2011 6:19 PM CST up reply actions  

NERDS!!!!

"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST

by JerBear50 on Jan 30, 2011 2:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Pulling a rabbit out of your hat

every few years does not make you a good coach. Everyone loves to talk about the sub-par play of the o-line. Sounds like a broken record. The o-line was an issue 4-5 years ago, so not getting it fixed is on Lovie. I get it, “defense wins championships”, but what good is a top 5 defense, when your offense don’t capitalize on the turnovers, don’t capitalize on great returns on special teams. Hester has to take it to the house, because the offense can’t even get it in from the 50. Anyone else will be at least as good as lovie. A blind squirrel can find a nut.

by Big Ike on Jan 28, 2011 10:14 AM CST reply actions  

It's on Lovie to fix the O-Line?

Is he the GM now?

His winning % is higher than all but 6 active coaches in the NFL.

If anyone else is as good as Lovie then you do you want and why?

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

My mistake for assuming

I just assumed Lovie had some input on who they bring in or draft.

by Big Ike on Jan 28, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Actually you are correct

He as just as much say in personel as Jerry granted through his last contract extension

by TheMan1 on Jan 28, 2011 11:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

JA makes the final call on whom to draft

Lovie has input, as do all the coaches and scouts, but it’s Angelo that pulls the trigger. Angelo is the one that decided to pass on RB James Starks after telling him they would draft him. He instead went with Dan LeFevour.

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

In the draft series.....

on the official site either last year or the year before, Both Angelo and Smith stated that they are equal partners, and Lovie’s last contract extension granted him that status.

You can’t take one player, Les, and turn it into the rule.

Smith does have some say over who is drafted and who is brought in via FA. I can return the volley this was. Adam Archuletta and Orlando Pace were both Smith ideas.

One of the things I’m tired of is people giving Smith credit for everything that goes wrong, and then absolving him of his duties as a head coach (not a defensive coordinator. He has control over both sides of the ball, not one.)

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 28, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

hmmm......somehow the last part is missing...

…..and then want to absolve him of his duties as head coach and any responsibility for the mistakes and errors that fall under his title.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 28, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

no such thing as 2 guys having equal say so

What if they disagree on a selection? Do they flip a coin? The GM has final say so on all personnel moves.

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 29, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course, but....

having the final say doesn’t mean that one lords it over the other. Angelo having the final word doesn’t mean that Lovie didn’t make many of the decisions. Do you know any successful working relationship where one person lords his influence over the other and makes all the decisions on his own?

Perfect example that we know exists? Mike Martz, who Angelo didn’t want but eventually relented to Smith’s wishes.

Come on, Les. You cannot possibly believe that the sort of extreme you are implying exists in that office. Especially not with the good relationship that Smith and Angelo have. Do you?

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 29, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

If Angelo didn't like the Martz idea

I’m sure Lovie had to present a plan to his boss (JA) to get his guy in, JA allowed it, and the hire was made.

I’m sure there were plenty of players that Lovie wanted JA to acquire, and in some instances he had to fight for his guy, and in some cases I’m sure he got his way, and I’m sure he’s made some mistakes

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 30, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Exactly....

And that’s all I’m saying. That mistakes in personnel exist in the organization, and both guys are to blame. (I still hold Angelo more responsible, as he DOES, as you pointed out, have final say.)

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

In other words,

it’s a bit extreme to jump from Angelo has final say in disagreements to Lovie has no responsibility for personnel decisions. And it’s a bit much to assume that Angelo never relents to Smith, especially when we know he has.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 29, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Expectations != Reality.

I think we need to come to the realization that… we’re oversetting our expectations for coaches, players, and organizations. If you can’t win the big one every year, you should be left to dry.

It’s insane. Not every year will be the best year, heck, there might be some bad ones. But, if it’s good, and if it’s going to be good. Stay the course.

Five foot three seems to thrive on his misery...

by awfullyquiet on Jan 28, 2011 10:32 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

So how does it work?

Angelo tells Lovie, “here’s a stellar defense, stellar special teams, and mediocre offense with a suspect o-line. Now go win Chicago a Super Bowl”.

by Big Ike on Jan 28, 2011 10:43 AM CST reply actions  

Extend.

The Bears only issue over the Lovie Smith era has been, and continues to be, mediocre offensive talent and performance. Let’s see if the additions of Tice and Martz, given a couple of years, can impact player development AND player evaluation (they do meet about the draft with the staff after all)…

If we could post a top half of the league offense, we would be in contention every year. 2009 was the only year in Lovie’s tenure we weren’t top 5 in field position, takeaways, 3rd down defense %, and top half of the league in scoring defense.

Corey Wootton, the Favre Slayer.

by Brendan Hess on Jan 28, 2011 10:48 AM CST reply actions  

I have a hard time understanding our demands on our coach...

I keep reading comments like “Lovie is horrible”, “coach x is better than Lovie”, “Lovie is mediocre at best”, etc.

But in the same writing I see “if he doesn’t get to NFCCG he needs to go”, or “if we get to the Super Bowl he can keep his job”

There are 30 teams each year that DON’T make the Super Bowl, yet only a handful(5-6) of coaches get fired/released each year…that tells me that the owners realize that parady is an actuality especially in the NFC, and that a coach who averages 9 wins a season, 3 playoffs in 7 years and two NFCCG is doing a pretty good job, it’s not like he is consistently dropping 6-10 records in the NFC West…

There have been 10 different NFC representatives for the Super Bowl in the last ten years and we are one of those teams and were a catastrophic QB injury away from our second trip in 5 years…

Unreasonable people make life difficult...

by WisBearsFan34 on Jan 28, 2011 11:40 AM CST reply actions  

Fisher is a No Brainer: Grab him now!

This is a no brainer! As soon as the pressure is off Lovie slips in his coaching. Jeff Fisher is a proven winner and is far smarter as a coach than Lovie. Fisher knows when to stand up for players and when to counsel them. Lovie is just a Laizze Faire kind of guy and nothing phases him. Jeff Fisher does a much better job in developing and using the talent he has been handed. Tennessee is not Chicago. Put Fisher in Chicago and watch the return of the Monsters of the Midway. All Lovie is good for is the pansies of the Midway (break but don’t bend out of date cover two).

by ChiBoy on Jan 28, 2011 11:59 AM CST reply actions  

Fisher

Is responsible for counseling Vince Young. Fisher has not won a championship in 17 years as a head coach. Fisher has not done anything more than Lovie Smith, despite 10 more years experience.

The world needs to get off of Fisher, and Fox’s, jocks. They are both decent, solid, consistent coaches, neither of which is spectacular, neither of which can assemble an offense, and neither of which have gotten through the ceiling to put on a ring…Just like Lovie Smith.

All three could win a championship if given a good OC and the right talent to help…None will do so without.

Corey Wootton, the Favre Slayer.

by Brendan Hess on Jan 28, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd say the Titans have had more overall talent than Chicago has had

and Fisher has a worse record than Lovie

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 28, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll keep this nice and short ...

….. Keep Lovie to hell with Fisher . Well he could come in as an assistant or something .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 28, 2011 12:10 PM CST reply actions  

I'll take Fisher

I prefer his leadership and his temperament and his attitude. He’s a much better fit for Chicago – the city and the franchise. He won’t make excuses and won’t act like he doesn’t even care most of the time.

He’s had a lot of success and had to deal with dynasties in the AFC in Pittsburgh, New England and Indianapolis. It’s been nothing but parity in the NFC since Lovie took over. Nobody has dominated, and I’ve seen the Bears lose way too many winnable games. Whether that’s poor leadership or poor execution, both fall at Lovie’s feet.

Maybe “the grass isn’t greener”, because I really haven’t followed the Titans enough to say whether they’ve had similar losses, but I’m tired of this team losing to teams like Seattle and Washington at home and the Packers.

I don’t want to extend him because I’m not and never have been sold on Lovie Smith as leader. I also don’t know whether he’ll be the best option one year from now. I’m also not scared of a bidding war. If the Chicago Bears can’t win a bidding war for the coach of their choice, then they don’t deserve having the best fans.

Cowher, Fisher, maybe even Mike Holmgren could be out there to take over this team, and I’ll take the risk of losing Lovie Smith to make sure they have the best option.

We’re talking about the Chicago Bears, guys. We don’t have to worry about someone stealing our prom date and having to go stag.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jan 28, 2011 1:20 PM CST reply actions  

Nobody should care

if the coach is a “fit” for Chicago or not. Just because you or other fans have some expectation that a coach needs to channel Ditka doesn’t mean it’s truth.

Fisher is no better than Lovie, the numbers prove it. He’s been around a LONG time and seems worn out.

There may very well be a better option than Lovie Smith, but Jeff Fisher isn’t it.

by Virto on Jan 28, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

When has Lovie made excuses for anything.

If anyone makes excuses it’s the fans and the MSM.

Adrian Pedestrian!! Now that's funny Mr. Bayless...

by Syndor on Jan 29, 2011 1:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Never.

Again, I’m no great Lovie supporter. But deflecting criticism isn’t Lovie’s thing. Lovie is a man who accepts responsibility for his mistakes, even as the media and fans try to absolve him of it.

Class and personal responsibility have never been Smith’s problem areas.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 29, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

To me, this isn't a case of "sign or replace"...

I want Lovie Smith back with the Bears for 2011. I’m not sure if I want him here for 2012. He’s currently signed through next season. He has earned the right to finish out his current contract. I don’t think that there is anybody here (outside of a few trolls) that believe that Lovie Smith should be fired after the season he just had.

My question, though, is this. Is it the right time to extend Lovie Smith right now? I merely have to point back to 2006/2007 to show why extending him is not a good idea. Lovie Smith took a team from 5 wins to the SB in 3 years. Then, he got a massive extension through 2011. 5 million a year. What happened? The team tanked. The same team, almost, from top to bottom, and they go from 14 wins to 7. Lovie axed his best assistant. He became a joke around the city of Chicago.

As far as replacements, I wouldn’t have a problem with Jeff Fisher. As much as I dislike the guy, I’d like to see a Holmgren disciple come here. They seem to have extended success almost at every stop they’ve been. Holmgren himself took two franchises to the SB three times total. His system is largely still in place in GB (at least, on offense), and they’re a perennial playoff contender. Andy Reid has had one of the longest successful tenures in the history of the NFL. I’d also like to see an 85er come here, or possibly the “other” Ryan brother.

But, again, this is not about choosing a coach for 2011. Our coaching staff is (and should be) set for next year. The major players should all be back. Lovie, Martz, Tice, Marinelli, and Toub are our guys for next year, for better or for worse. Beyond that, they (as a whole, not necessarily individually) have to prove themselves that they can continue success for more than a single season.

by Doshi on Jan 28, 2011 2:34 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

This↑

rec’d

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 29, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather take

Dom Capers from the Packers than have Jeff Fisher, if we have to replace Lovie.

Jeff Fisdher is an average coach, imo, just like Lovie. He’s just long-tenured.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Jan 28, 2011 3:12 PM CST reply actions  

I wouldnt mind capers

if they got another D coach / mind…..

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!!!! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!!! IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE!!!!

- Jay Cutler to some Bears fans and media after NFC title game

by CloudyFuture on Jan 28, 2011 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

My idea for a coach would be someone like Tomlin or Rivera..

For the simple reason of them being flexible. Tomlin for example came in being a 4-3 guy he saw what he had with Lebeau and said why would I mess this up. Rivera was also a 4-3 guy but his time with SD has given him the flexibility to do a whole lot of different things with his players even though he doesn’t have the exact pieces for a 3-4. I wouldn’t expect them to be any different with the offensive side of the ball.

Adrian Pedestrian!! Now that's funny Mr. Bayless...

by Syndor on Jan 29, 2011 1:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong though...

I want Lovie to stay for at least a couple more seasons.

Adrian Pedestrian!! Now that's funny Mr. Bayless...

by Syndor on Jan 29, 2011 1:27 AM CST up reply actions  

in regards to Rivera

how do we know that he’ll run both defensive fronts? Maybe he has a preference…

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 29, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

We don't.

In fact, I doubt it. Rivera is on record as being a 4-3 guy. He did say in San Diego that he enjoyed learning a different system, but I’d be willing to bet that he runs a very similar but slightly more aggressive system to what we run here in Carolina.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 29, 2011 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

he would run the Johnson 4-3 from his days in Philladelphia

that’s my guess

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 30, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Pretty much, yeah....

similar cover two shell style 4-3, only more aggressive. In all honesty, I think it will be something a bit more his own that takes what worked best from both systems, which is why I said “slightly” more aggressive.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

QUIT STEALING MY LINES!!!

BTW, Jackson won with two different sets of facial hair, so you gotta count him twice.

by Doshi on Jan 29, 2011 8:36 AM CST up reply actions  

This might be Lovie's problem.

Somebody meeds to get this to Smith, stat. I mean, common, guys who are light in the hair department up top usually grow the best facial hair. I bet he could pull off a Walter Payton with the best of them!

And then all of our troubles would be over………just like when we had Wannstedt……wait….what?

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

If the Bears were to make a change

I would rather they bring in some Offensive minded coach (brian schottenheimer would be my choice)…..Try to advance the offense and Cutlers career (even if hes a quitter and a baby, etc. etc)….Cause I have no faith in martz truth be known…..

That said I am not expecting a change….My main concern is that if there is an extension is that they over extend Lovie and they have no way of really backing out of the deal due to money concerns ala what happened with jauron in 01…..

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!!!! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!!! IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE!!!!

- Jay Cutler to some Bears fans and media after NFC title game

by CloudyFuture on Jan 28, 2011 4:49 PM CST reply actions  

Les, you were right, my friend.....

I disagree. Lovie doesn’t have enough fire and passion on the sidelines to be a Chicago head coach. The idea of keeping a guy who doesn’t have the common sense to yell at this players or bare his arse at them in the locker room to get his point across is ridiculous. Where are his guts? He hasn’t done a damned thing here.

OK, now that I’ve got your attention, lol…….

Rather than chasing you around this post to state every argument I disagree with (or agree with, as there are some of those, as well) I will post a response as a fanpost later tonight to explain exactly why I have issues with Smith and with some of your reasoning on this post.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 28, 2011 5:20 PM CST reply actions  

Let's see here

Get to the playoffs, check, win a playoff game, check, lose in conference game, check. Yea, not many teams fire coaches after a season like this, unless you are the Chargers with Shotty after going 14-2, and do you really want to be compared to the Chargers ownership and management?

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jan 29, 2011 3:39 AM CST reply actions  

Lovie just isnt a smart coach

we simply got out coached in the NFCCG. his mistakes and lack of in game changes, keeping control of his staff and inability to make good decisions while in the heat of battle are my reasons to move on.
1. his challenges (and lack of challenge) in the Redskins game were a foreshadow of what was to come. Jay clearly broke the plane with the ball, we all saw it, except for Lovie.
2. The NFCCG we came out flat and predictable. Rodgers was not changing plays at the line, he just knew exactly what we were going to do in every situation. Lovie does not game plan for different teams, he has admitted that and proven it on the field, repeatedly.
3. He’s a players coach. What that means is he doesn’t run tough practices, doesn’t use sleds (Tice was surprised at this and immediately re-instated the use of sleds) the players like that Lovie doesn’t run them hard and make them work for it. I have heard many times of Lovie going easy on practice due to hot weather.
4. Lovie is the Head Coach, that means all decisions go through him. Who here saw 5 and 7 step drops in the NFCCG and thought ‘Here we go again’ while Rodgers tore us up with short drops and screen passes? Get control of your OC and make that fat bastard run the ball. But Martz doesn’t like to make people do things he himself wont do.

Last thought on the ‘Cover 2’ (or Tampa 2 or any other variation that we drop back into). I though that people were ‘covered’ down field and the ‘holes’ were in the short yardage game either over the MLB or between the MLB and The CB. But our DBs just tackle after every catch. How about breaking up the pass? Anyone think of getting between the QB and WR to pick off the ball or knock the ball down? nope, cause they aren’t smart enough to read the QBs eyes, or fast enough to react. If they do jump the route they will most likely miss and then the WR goes to the house.

But getting rid of just Lovie won’t do. JA and his newly hired cronie Ruskell will have to accompany him on the unemployment line. And with the season ticket agent taking over as President, dont expect any monumental changes anytime soon.

We will have to change our motto to ‘Missed it by that much’ and hope for the best. Like a catastrophic plane crash in cheeseland.

by Berserker333 on Jan 29, 2011 10:04 AM CST reply actions  

Also...

The final play for the Bears….Fourth and Four with 50 sec left and he ran the hurry up O with a TIMEOUT left…I threw everything I had at the wall…he would call a timeout on third down but wont on the crucial fourth down?! And on that point…why did Todd Collins get put back into second string? I don’t care if Martz decided that (you know what, I do care…I hate you Martz), Lovie has to know that Collins is not capable of running an NFL Offense…Ok….rant over…

by DaBikePro on Jan 29, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Lovie just isnt a smart coach

We simply got out coached in the NFCCG. his mistakes and lack of in game changes, keeping control of his staff and inability to make good decisions while in the heat of battle are my reasons to move on.
1. his challenges (and lack of challenge) in the Redskins game were a foreshadow of what was to come. Jay clearly broke the plane with the ball, we all saw it, except for Lovie.
2. The NFCCG we came out flat and predictable. Rodgers was not changing plays at the line, he just knew exactly what we were going to do in every situation. Lovie does not game plan for different teams, he has admitted that and proven it on the field, repeatedly.
3. He’s a players coach. What that means is he doesn’t run tough practices, doesn’t use sleds (Tice was surprised at this and immediately re-instated the use of sleds) the players like the fact that Lovie doesn’t run them hard and make them work for it. I have heard many times of Lovie going easy on practices due to hot weather.
4. Lovie is the Head Coach, that means all decisions go through him. Who here saw 5 and 7 step drops in the NFCCG and thought ‘Here we go again’ while Rodgers tore us up with short drops and screen passes? Get control of your OC and make that fat bastard run the ball. But Martz doesn’t like to make people do things he himself wont do.

Last thought on the ‘Cover 2’ (or Tampa 2 or any other variation that we drop back into). I though that people were ‘covered’ down field and the ‘holes’ were in the short yardage game either over the MLB or between the MLB and The CB. But our DBs just tackle after every catch. How about breaking up the pass? Anyone think of getting between the QB and WR to pick off the ball or knock the ball down? nope, cause they aren’t smart enough to read the QBs eyes, or fast enough to react. If they do jump the route they will most likely miss and then the WR goes to the house.

But getting rid of just Lovie won’t do. JA and his newly hired cronie Ruskell will have to accompany him on the unemployment line. And with the season ticket agent taking over as President, dont expect any monumental changes anytime soon.

We will have to change our motto to ‘Missed it by that much’ and hope for the best. Like a catastrophic plane crash in cheeseland.

by Berserker333 on Jan 29, 2011 10:05 AM CST reply actions  

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