Why Care What Forte Makes?
Here’s a guy who was offered a contract worth $6 million per year, with $13-14 million guaranteed, turned it down, and is now -– amazingly — the peoples’ proletariat. ~ This was in the Den but it's such an interesting piece.
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Honestly it doesn't matter to me how much any of them make
as long as those who should be on the team are under contract and perform. I don’t think I’m paid enough either but nobody is going to go on a blog or twitter and tell my employer I need to make more money.
I’m starting to miss the time when i was younger when I knew much less about the business side of football and just watched the games and read about them in the paper because they were my team.
Someone once called Mr. T, Mr. Coffee...his body was found in a dumpster shortly after.
#payDitkavsworld
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 3, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Boom <----- you know what that is?
The sound of Wilt dropping knowledge.
Someone once called Mr. T, Mr. Coffee...his body was found in a dumpster shortly after.
by Ditkavsworld on Nov 3, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
*points to your WAPS material…
your raise is somewhere in there
Superman wears an Urlacher Jersey under his costume
by BearNecessities on Nov 3, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Master 1st time = long shot.
Congress increase pay raise in January from a pathetic 1.7% to pretty much anything more = long shot.
Someone once called Mr. T, Mr. Coffee...his body was found in a dumpster shortly after.
by Ditkavsworld on Nov 3, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Because
Any time I see a young person making a bad decision I cringe a bit. I think Forte is making a bad decision. He should ask for a couple more mil guaranteed and sign the deal.
I read the article and I care.
I care because I think it’s bigger than business. I think it’s real easy to fall back and take a big picture view and say that the Bears are doing what’s in their right to do and that as long as Forte is performing well, then just sit back on your couch and enjoy. It speaks to the larger issue of how the Bears run their business.
I find it hypocritical for Bernstein, who spent hours over the last few weeks talking about the Cubs and how Epstein has to change the culture their, giving the Bears a pass for not investing in one of their best commodities. Forte isn’t a splash in the pan. He’s been doing this form day one and what we’re seeing is a culmination of all his hard work finally surfacing and he’s 25 years old.
To me it seems like Forte is having to pay the price for a lot of JA’s bad decisions like overpaying Tommie Harris and giving millions to Chester Taylor and Malemuna(sp). It sends a bad message to your team about what you value as an organization and how you plan on running the team going forward. THAT"S why I care as a fan.
I’m watching a guy that’s kept his nose clean and worked hard while putting up MVP numbers not be invested in while Omiyale and Merriwether are being paid more. You should care because it speaks to the culture of the organization. So the next time we wonder why we have Martz running an offense that doesn’t fit our Franchise QB instead of Chudzinski who’s making Cam Newton a Probowler, understand it’s because of this organizations inability to make the right decisions and invest in the right people.
It’s not rocket science. Either you think he’s as good as MJD and D.Williams or you don’t. JA and others should just admit that they never thought Forte was elite and he’s proving them wrong every Sunday. That’s really the root of the issue. Pay the guy already.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
by Dils on Nov 3, 2011 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
+95
Superman wears an Urlacher Jersey under his costume
by BearNecessities on Nov 3, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Why don't you explain why...
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
My guess is he already explained his reasoning in another thread somewhere
I’ll bet you can find it somewhere in this…
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 3, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Good Post Dils
And I think you’ve hit the heart of the issue. This is also likely the reason there is so much discord between players and front office.
I’ll admit that I was vert upset with Briggs demanding to be be traded after his demands for a new contract went nowhere. He, however, is and has already been paid at his performance level. Forte has not, and it’s time for the front office to recoginize and reward his performance and character.
Pay Matt Forte! Now!
As long as he doesn't become a F/A, or hold out
Though i believe he deserves CJ2K money.. He should just sign a 7 mil a year 16mil guaranteed contract and get it over with
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders
It's all about THE []_[] baby!!!
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At least FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER before you judge me fool
But since Angelo seemingly hasn't renegotiated off of his original offer
and Forte’s value has gone up each week, the gap has grown wider and wider. At this point Angelo could make some monetary consessions and they may still not be enough.
If its free, take two.
How has Forte's value gone up each week?
Value is what someone is willing to pay and since the bears have first rights to Forte (via the franchise tag), he is going to be a $7-$8 million back. Nothing he does can positively change that. He can blow a knee, etc. and drive that number down, but not up.
It’s a crappy situation, but it is what it is. Sign a contract with about that rate with a decent guarantee and protect yourself.
Not a part of your fan base, but I think his value has clearly gone up as the season has.
Not only is he having an outstanding year, but he is doing it the way Brian Westbrook used to have to do it for the Eagles. The guy is like half your offense(might be closer to 40%) or something. He’s really put you guys on his back in a few games this year.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 3, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
You're dealing with two different values here....
Perceived value and actual value.
You’re right, the Bears hold all the cards barring hold outs and such which still don’t raise the actual value unless the Bears cave. However, that’s only for the actual value.
The perceived value is much much different, and is the one that largely matters to public opinion. If his perceived value is at 10million a year, and the Bears are paying him 7-8million, then there is cognitive dissonance between those that value Forte at 10 mil, and the actual amount the Bears are paying.
Now how people resolve this dissonance is up in the air, and is the basis of a lot of public relations. If Forte is liked much more than the Bears management, then people are generally going to resolve it by saying the Bears management are underpaying a good guy and are a bunch of stringy scrooges. If people like Bears management more they are going to say that it’s a wise decision to underpay because it saves money for other players and such.
Here is the problem, this bit of mental acrobatics works differently for everyone due to their already established biases and point of view. The majority of NFL players are going to see the Bears in a poor light due to this. The majority of Bears fans are going to see the Bears in a poor light due to this. Why? It reinforces an already established meme of the Bears being stingy with their money(AKA Nickles like Manhole Covers).
So they are trading basically trading a comparatively small amount of money in the grand scheme of things for a large PR blow that could not only hurt them now, but in the future in terms of both revenue generation and talent acquisition.
Seems like a bad idea to me, but then again I’m not in an NFL front office.
But then you're going to have people like me
I like Forte much more than any one person in the Bears Front Office, and I still value him at his actual value, because I’m not in the business of looking at made up value projections. *
*Except fantasy sports. Cuz obviously.
Took the 'G' out your waffle, all you got left is your Ego.
Editor at windycitygridiron.com | @KDoggers
True...
But the people that play for our team matter more to me than sports writers and fans, and if the players think our team is cheap it hurts when it comes to luring free agents, and UDFA.
so if he has a couple of less productive games his value goes down?
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
If he was averaging D-Will type numbers this year
or had a string of 50 yard or less games with below a 4.0 ypc average, yeah, it’d go down.
If its free, take two.
just saying he is on a 7 game hot streak
the bears offered him a deal based on last years production and even sweeten the deal but he wants ck2k money for him to have an argument for that he is going to need to keep the streak going 9 more games.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
"just saying he is on a 7 game hot streak"
No…this is not some hot streak. Forte has been an elite, complete, back (and I’m not afraid to say elite) since he’s been drafted.
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
and up until the last 7 games his production has only been that of a very good back not an elite one.
I think not.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
These numbers are from a couple of weeks ago
But they still help prove my point. This is the percentage of total yardage each player (Adrian Peterson and Matt Forte) has accumulated the last three years.
2008 AP: 34.0%
2009 AP: 28.8% (Lower numbers because the passing attack was lights out)
2010 AP: 31.1%
2008 MF = 35.0%
2009 MF = 27.1%
2010 MF = 32.2%
2011 AP: 29.6%; 2011 Matt Forte: 43.2%
Basically, Forte has been a bigger impact on the Bears offense than AP has for Minnesota. I’m not saying that Forte is the better runner between the two but I think this helps prove that Forte is the more complete running back (read: player) between the two.
Also, I don’t believe that using either total yards or TDs is the best way to compare the two players given the fact that Minnesota’s offense has been much more well rounded the last several years. I know this might seem like I’m cherry picking stats, but both of those numbers are incredibly dependent on the play of the offensive line which has been the Bears’ weakness the for the past few seasons now.
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
over his career Forte averages 4.2 yds per carry, AP 4.8
over his career Forte averages 9.2 yards per pass AP 9.6
over his career Forte averages a TD every 40 touches, AP 23
Forte is not in the same class as AP over the course of his career.
Forte is trying to cash in on a fantastic 7 game hot streak.
why should I care? He was offered a deal and they offered to sweeten it.
It was a lot of money but he wants more.
When you point out what % of our offense he is you are just reminding me of how lame it really is.and not making me care if MF gets AP money.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
The reason I used percentage of offense is
It proves how important Forte has been to this team. To carry the team like that shows how, in my opinion, irreplaceable he has become to this team. And to clarify that statement I’m not saying he isn’t irreplaceable; just that it would be hard to do with only one player.
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
I would argue that it would actually hurt Forte
Because teams should only have one player that they have to game-plan for to stop this offense.
If the Bears surround Forte with any kind of quality talent on the line and at WR positions (they’ve already got their QB) his percentage of the offense goes down but his averages that Ed posted above would almost undoubtedly go up because there are more threats to worry about and the line can, well, actually block.
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
I meant that it helps his percentages.
I agree completely that if the Bears had the protection and weapons the Queen has had the last 3 years, Forte would look even beastlier. But that’s a pipe dream around Jellly and the Angelettes.
Ah, I see what you're saying
My mistake
They have two liter bottles now? To think I spent all that time demanding a liter!
no one "deserves" ck2k money not ck2k or anyone else the guy didn't cure cancer arrange world peace etc. all he does is play football.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
That's something you might want to explain to the owners shelling out this money.
If it helps him sell Jerseys and pack seats at 65$+ a pop who are we to say that the guy is overpaying. It’s a tripped out business but it is a pretty booming one.
the key word was "deserves" not "business" and business is business and seldom evolves people getting what they deserve.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
evolves lol
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Forte > Tebow
Superman wears an Urlacher Jersey under his costume
by BearNecessities on Nov 3, 2011 11:31 AM CDT reply actions
...
ThorCo > Tebow
(/game over, thanks for playing)
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by Steven Schweickert on Nov 3, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Pay Tebow!
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Occupy Tebow!
Weekend contributor and official editorial lackey/waitstaff at Windy City Gridiron
If a people-avoiding gaming hermit is on Twitter, I should be too. Follow me!
by Steven Schweickert on Nov 3, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
what an odd looking word
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
X > Tebow
Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Leading the NFL in swagtangibles
That post is still going strong!
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 3, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
So far it's...
Forte, Grossman, Orton, X, Cutlering, Occuping, ThorCo, The neighbors cat, and turf toe > Tebow.
Miss anything?
Pay Matt Forte! Now!
You forgot Herm Edwards.
HELLOOOOOOOOO
Someone once called Mr. T, Mr. Coffee...his body was found in a dumpster shortly after.
I realize the franchise tag is an option,
but I care because I want the bears to make the right choice. I have heard all sides of this from several people in the media and on SB nation, but this is how I feel.
Sure, he currently makes more this year than I could hope to earn over the next decade at the very least (yep, I am a teacher, do the math), but I want this guy on the team. I enjoy watching him play and I would hate to see him play anywhere else.
I realize a running back typically has a short career, but who is to say Matt Forte won’t put up 2,000 total yards for each of the next 6-8 years? Anyone that accumulates that many yards other than a QB is a great player to have around. Fans know if you want to keep talented players on a team, you must pay them and build around them. The Bears paid Cutler, but have yet to build around him. They are asking Forte to carry this offense because there is no one else. Cutler isn’t going to trot out there and catch a screen pass, or run head first into DonkeyKong Suh.
Yes, these athletes make absurd amounts of money to play a game while unemployment is currently plaguing this country. But still, for 6 months a year, 3 hours each week, I get to forget about all outside distractions and focus on watching my favorite football team. When I do, I want to watch the best possible players on that team.
Of course the franchise tag is valuable, but there is no long term security with it. I feel that Matt Forte is among the elite running backs in the league and his skill set will be an asset on any team. He knows how valuable he is to this team, but the Bears do not care to pay up because they are still feeling the hurt from the last several bad contracts they have handed out. He signed a contract and is currently honoring the hell out of it…why can’t the Bears take care of a guy who has taken care of them without having a long term commitment?
Finally, to end my ramblings. Here is a quote from the movie “The Program” which I feel answers why we pay athletes so much money.
“When was the last time 80,000 people showed up to see a kid do a damn chemistry experiment?”
by Minds_Eye024 on Nov 3, 2011 3:10 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Why do people continue to act
like Forte wasn’t offered a pretty solid deal before the season?
It’s Forte assuming the risk right now, not the Bears. It’s disconcerting to me that so many people feel the Bears should possibly overpay someone who was offered security and chose not to take it.
Took the 'G' out your waffle, all you got left is your Ego.
Editor at windycitygridiron.com | @KDoggers
"Why do people continue to act like Forte wasn’t offered a pretty solid deal before the season?"
Because what he was offered wasn’t market value. Why do people act like the Bears FO is the only side able to negotiate a contract? Forte has as much of a right to turn down a deal that he didn’t deem fair as the Bears do franchising him or trying to pay him less than Frank Gore. The only difference is that Forte has the ability to go out on the field and prove that he’s worth the money he’s asking for.
Unfortunately for the Bears and others, he’s doing just that. So now that he’s doing that and gaining fans admiration for doing so, people want to talk about what the Bears have the right to do in terms of franchising and why fans don’t understand how business works. A “Pretty solid deal” isn’t going to keep Pujols in St. Louis or would’ve kept Peyton Manning in Indy. A guy goes out and produces above his current pay or the raise he was offered, he has a right to keep performing and raising his value to get more money.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
But it's not an even negotiation.
The players union agreed to a deal knowing exactly how these types of negotiations take place. If Forte really wanted to make sure he could acquire a maximum guarantee, he’d take it.
Let’s say he does get franchised, and is guaranteed his ~$8,000,000 next season, and then gets injured early, and is never the same guy again. Are you still going to be really mad that the Bears didn’t give him $18mil guaranteed?
Took the 'G' out your waffle, all you got left is your Ego.
Editor at windycitygridiron.com | @KDoggers
Fair question.
From a fans perspective…No. Because it frees up money for the Bears to make other signings. From one working man to another…Yes I would be because I know that they never intended to give Forte market value. The thing is that for runningbacks in the NFL, the contract structure is blatantly unfair because it isn’t structured for the career lifespan of a Back.
That’s the union’s fault for not negotiating harder. I get that. But understand that the Bears have every intention on running him into the ground and discarding him unless he signs a deal that is undeserved. So perhaps I’m thinking more with my heart than my mind, but after paying guys who don’t deserve to be on NFL rosters you’d think they would take care of one of their best players.
This is exactly why guys like Urlacher and Briggs have gone out to get their contracts restructured. And what happened when they did so? They were called whiners and selfish. So if we can’t get mad for a guy like Forte then what’s the point? These guys can’t win no matter what.
Hey Rose. I don't see the appeal!
Say Forte gets the Franchise Tag for 2 years in a row
and makes about $20M, how productive do we think he’ll be 3 years from now? And will he still deserve big time long term money?
Someone once called Mr. T, Mr. Coffee...his body was found in a dumpster shortly after.
If he gets tagged 2 years in a row ....
….. he’ll make roughly 8 million in season one and that would then jump to right aroung 9 million in season 2 . So he’d make 17 million for two seasons .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Nov 4, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
So about 20M right...
Regards less of actual dollar amount does he still deserve the big contract after those two years?
Someone once called Mr. T, Mr. Coffee...his body was found in a dumpster shortly after.
I doubt if he gets franchised 2 years ....
…. in a row he puts up those type numbers . History is not on his side with that . My biggest issue with this whole thing is everybody killin the front office for not payin Matt Forte . A RB’s life span is a short one and for once it seems like JA is learning from past mistakes yet he gets killed for it .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Nov 4, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just wondering if Forte's future depends on if Martz stays in Chicago.
Forte has done nothing but shined in Martz’s scheme. If Martz is let go and new OC is brought, how will that affect Forte’s production.
Maybe they franchise him next year. Then slap the Transition tag on him, so the Bears can get compensated 2 first round picks if they lose Matt. JA obviously thinks anybody can fill in Forte’s spot.
by boondock_saint812 on Nov 4, 2011 11:11 AM CDT reply actions
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