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After Several Disappointing Drafts, Should the Bears Be Considering a Trade Down?

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Let's face it. It's been a while since we, as Bears fans, were satisfied with a draft (Or at least as satisfied as any fan can be).   The question has been throw around as to whether the Bears will trade down this year from the first round 1 pick they have had since taking Chris Williams in 2008.  But should they even be considering it?  Follow me to the clearing at the end of the jump and we'll discuss this thought in full.  See you there!

Star-divide

When was the last satisfying Bears draft for you?  2010 was actually pretty successful, considering that the Bears had only 5 picks and none until the third round.  Major Wright looks decent, Corey Wootton ended the Brett Favre Era and that alone makes him a success, and J'Marcus Webb developed decently on the field as a 7th round rookie who was thrown into the starting job by necessity.  Josh Moore is said to be progressing well and will compete for a job after redshirting his rookie season, and even with the Waiver Wire Debacle, I don't believe Dan LeFevour to be a bad choice either (and the Bengals are pretty happy that the Bears thought they would get away with stashing Dan on the practice squad). We got about as much as we could expect from the picks the Bears had going in.

2009 gave us some decent talent in the 4th and 5th rounds, but that's about it from 9 picks.  And only DJ Moore, Henry Melton and Johnny Knox are consistent contributors.  And the two top picks aren't even in the league any more.

2008 gave us Matt Forte, Earl Bennett and Kellen Davis (and Chris Williams might yet show up), but not much more out of 12 choices.  

2007 brought Greg Olsen and not much else other than Corey Graham as a ST standout.  And that was with another 9 draft selections.

Sure, there have been some other players who contributed:  Al Afalava, Kevin Payne, Garrett Wolfe, Josh Beekman, Marcus Harrison and Trumaine McBride.  But how many of these players, after looking back, would you be happy to say the Bears drafted if they were on the board this year?

Now, I'm not just writing this to bash Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith.  There are plenty of stories out there doing that, and frankly, nobody in the league is drafting without their misses.  If your hitting on 50% of your picks, you are doing better than the league's best draft minds.

My point is that while there is talent to be found later in the draft, the best chances to find top talent, percentage wise, still comes the 1st round.  Each round after diminishes those chances.  Think about this:

Of all players drafted in the last 10 drafts, 205 of them have been elected to the Pro-Bowl.  103 of those (or 50.2%) came out of the first round.  Another 42 came from the second round meaning that 70.7% of all pro-bowlers drafted came from the first two rounds.  And if you think that's telling, then I have some other math for you to consider.

 

 

-318 players were selected in the 1st round of the draft since 2001.  That's 12.5% of the players drafted.  103 of them made the pro bowl or 32.4% of them.  A first round pick then has a 1 in 3 chance of making the pro bowl.

 

-319 players were selected in the 2nd round of the draft since 2001.  That's 12.5% of the players drafted.  42 of them made the pro bowl or 13.2% of them.  A second round pick then has a 1 in 7.6 chance of making the pro bowl.

 

-343 players were selected in the 3rd round of the draft since 2001.  That's 13.4% of the players drafted.  16 of them made the pro bowl or 4.7% of them.  A third round pick then has a 1 in 21.3 chance of making the pro bowl.

 

-361 players were selected in the 4th round of the draft since 2001.  That's 14.1% of the players drafted.  19 of them made the pro bowl or 5.3% of them.  A fourth round pick then has a 1 in 18.9 chance of making the pro bowl.

 

-357 players were selected in the 5th round of the draft since 2001.  That's 14% of the players drafted.  11 of them made the pro bowl or 3.1% of them.  A fifth round pick then has a 1 in 32.3 chance of making the pro bowl.

 

-383 players were selected in the 6th round of the draft since 2001.  That's 15% of the players drafted.  8 of them made the pro bowl or 2.1% of them.  A sixth round pick then has a 1 in 47.6 chance of making the pro bowl.

 

-471 players were selected in the 7th round of the draft since 2001.  That's 18.5 % of the players drafted.  6 of them made the pro bowl or 1.3% of them.  A seventh round pick then has a 1 in 78.5 chance of making the pro bowl.

 

_note: all statistics above were calculated using information provided by pro-football-reference.com 

 

 

Now, I know that this is just a snapshot based on one criteria.  Had I the time to (and I may yet) figure out the number of starts per player per round, or to even use the career AV system promoted at pro-football-reference.com to weigh the average player for each round over the past ten years.  But with just a few hours to research and do the math, I think this provides a legitimate basis to start the conversation.

I originally thought that the Bears might be wise to trade down.  But as I looked over the recent draft history, not just Bears but overall, and as I looked over the above numbers, I am starting to believe that the best option for the Bears is to chose quality over quantity.  

Might they have a bit better odds with more picks?  Maybe.  But I believe even that is up for debate, given the diminishing rate of success of each subsequent round from the 1st.  The Bears may have a lot of holes to fill, but they may not get filled with more picks.  To the contrary, they may get fewer contributing players by trading down for more choices than they would have had staying where they are.  

Stay tuned, as I intend on following this up with another column that takes a more in depth look at statistics based on round.

So, should the Bears trade down or stay where they are?  Sound off below, and Bear Down!

 

Poll
Should the Bears consider trading down or staying put?
Trade down
29 votes
Stay put
29 votes
Trade up
20 votes
Depends on the players available. They need to draft for need not for best available player.
33 votes

111 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 72 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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This is when I would trade down

If you have a handful of guys at the top of your board that you rate equally… and you can trade down a handful of spots, thus insuring you’ll get one of the guys on your wish list, and pick up an additional pick or two.

If you’re doing it simply to pick up quantity, then don’t bother.

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Apr 22, 2011 9:19 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Completely agree.

So much depends on where the trade may fall and who they think they can get there.

by TheotherDane on Apr 22, 2011 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree completely.

Well put.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 22, 2011 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really need to trade down!

I’m stating a given here, but good interior line men (Guards and Centers) are traditionally selected in the mid-rounds, ie: 3rd, 4th and even 5th.
Geez Louise!
If we can pick up a few picks/prospects that would even remotely be considered Average Starting Material by any of the other NFL Team we should be ecstatic!
After the last 2 years, Pro Bowler on our OLine is a total “pipe dream”.
I’m just talkin about an average Joe Blow OLine prospect that is not over the hill or a swinging gate.

pbanachi

by pbanachi on Apr 23, 2011 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

My only counter agrument to that is.....

how did you like Josh Beekman? pro-bowlers on our line HAVE been a pipe dream. But that might be because the only linemen drafted by Chicago have come from the middle to late rounds, except one Brokeback T-Rex. Remember that since Angelo got control over personnel (remember that Jauron had personnel control until he was fired after ’03) the Bears have drafted exactly one linemen in the first three round out of the nine matadors taken. None have been any good.

Maybe it’s time we start drafting some players from higher up?

Also, there are more holes to fill than the Bears have draft picks. Free agency is going to have to be a factor this year as well. Besides, if the Bears stare 3 rookies on the line, you can expect Jay Cutler to have a long, long year. You need a combination of youth and experience. Three rookies + Webb and Kruetz = dead Cutler.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 4:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

My point exactly!

Because Beekman was a bust we stop picking Oline men in later rounds? Look at our 1st rounder Williams, … how’s he panning-out? Lousy picks both, and more so the higher they are chosen. Pro Bowlers “are” a pipe dream or “have” been a pipe dream. Same difference, we got None!
The key point you might have missed and assumed is I said “Picks/Prospects”
… going up to “Rookie Starters” is a huge leap in interperatation!
Now the big difference is that we have real NFL Coaches like Mike & Mike, that can develope some of these prospects. I feel that that’s been our problem all along.
“FOL” … Friends Of Lovie, with NO NFL Coaching Experience, but great “Yes” men.
And as I have every every Sundy morning, I will go to St. Marys of the Desert, melt some wax and whisper : “Virginia, if you can hear me, Carl Nicks and Sidney Rice”.
Having said that …
Go Bears!

pbanachi

by pbanachi on Apr 23, 2011 6:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

ummm...

Hold on there, my friend. There wasn’t one worthless pick in the later rounds….there were eight. Your point is the exact point I would make to Angelo, only in reverse. One bad pick in the upper rounds doesn’t justify the eight bad picks in the lower rounds.

And if you look around the league, your better linemen are overwhelming coming form the upper rounds. Not that this should be a huge surprise. They are being picked in the upper rounds for a reason.

And you left out the rest of what you said. You did indeed say picks/prospect…..but you finished with “that would be considered even remotely Average Starting Material”. That would seem to indicate that going to “Rookie Srarters” isn’t such a big leap.

If your so sure Tice can develop mediocre players into something worth having, then why even draft a linemen? We have plenty of mediocre linemen on the team now. Keep who we have, pick up a couple of FA castoffs and grab a few undrafteds and let Tice mold them. Of course, I’m being facetious. Why not give tice some top tier talent to play with instead of asking him to perform miracles?

Finally, just because pro bowl linemen have been a pipe dream recently doesn’t mean we shouldn’t aspire to get them (who aspires for mediocrity? Really.), or that we haven’t had them. 2 in the last 5 seasons: Olin Kruetz and Ruben Brown were both selected in 2006. BTW, Olin was taken with 64th pick of the 98 draft (3 pick of the third round then, last pick of the 2nd round now) and Ruben Brown was the 14th overall pick of the ‘95 draft. In other words, both were taken in what would be the first two round today. Maybe there’s something to this whole “draft them in the upper rounds” thing, eh?

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

??? what ???
Olin Kruetz and Ruben Brown were both selected in 2006.

Olin was drafted in 1996 in the third rd by The Bears.
Reuben was drafted in 1995 by The Bills, we picked him up in 2004.
I don’t have a clue where you get the 2006 date.

by Berserker333 on Apr 23, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

and im an idiot

selected to pro bowl
now fitting large pointy cap on head and sitting in corner…
where’s my coffee?

by Berserker333 on Apr 23, 2011 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's ok, brother.

I have those moments frequently. Especially lately. :/

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well by the looks of things we will definately be selecting at least 1 O-Lineman within the first 3 rounds.

And you can bet its going to be a big Tackle/Guard player such as Marcus Cannon.

Also imo there are a ton of good O-lineman that were selected in the earlier rounds; however, a great majority of them are Tackles while a good percentage of your best Guards were selected in the mid to later rounds- Carl Nicks being a prime example as he was drafted in the 5th round.

It all depends on the coaching staff as well as the character of said O-Lineman.

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm posting a nice argument to Carl Nicks soon :)

A hint….it seems most of the leagues starting interior linemen come from the first couple of rounds. And the farther down the draft you get, the fewer starters seem to emerge.

It looks so far like the Myth that guards are easier to find than tackles in the later rounds is going to get busted. BIG.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Time to ring that bell

Ding….ding

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't want to be

around when the Bears pass on Marcus Cannon. You seem like you REALLY want him. I learned long ago not to get my heart set on any particular players with Angelo running the draft—you are always bound to be disappointed.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Apr 23, 2011 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eh, I know Im setting myself up for faliure

But I always have confidence especially when the day of reckoning arrives.

I really want the Bears to draft him because to my eyes there is not one interior O-Lineman that would be a better fit into our scheme than Marcus Cannon. But, knowing that in the draft no one can accurately predict the picks as so many variables happen before a draft selection is made.

Besides if Cannon is not selected then as long as we either draft another good Guard or wait till FA to sign someone such as Carl Nicks or any good Guard then I will be satisfied.

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

We have plenty of mediocre linemen on the team now.

 (who aspires for mediocrity? Really.)

I think Jay would have loved for his pass protection to have reached the dizzying heights of mediocrity at times!

Acreman20: 127 hours is pretty decent.
awfullyquiet: How long is that movie?
Acreman20: 93 minutes.

by Spongie on Apr 23, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say passable...

But they were passable. Very passable.

Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron

by Steven Schweickert on Apr 23, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's a snippet of what's to come next week. I think it's relevant here.

Just running off of last years draft, the difference even from the 1st to the 3rd round is huge.

6 offensive linemen were drafted in the first round. Every one of them was the primary starter for the team that drafted them. They averaged playing 15 games for their respective teams each. And they had an average AV of 6.

6 offensive linemen were drafted in the third round. 2 were primary starters. They averaged playing six games a piece for their teams as a group and had an average AV of 2.

And that’s just a two round dropoff in the last draft. I’m working on the numbers over the past 10 years. It’s pretty time consuming, but I’m gonna try and pull it off before the draft. But what I’ve got so far speaks volumes to the need to draft those higher picks to find consistent starting players. That’s not to say that starters cannot be found in the later rounds. But the likelyhood is far better with upper round picks.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah but a good number of those said first rounder O-Lineman did not play very well

Consistant starters perhaps, but they also did not play very well as a whole.

Draft status is not the ultimate determination of one’s ability, its the heart that goes into it as well.

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree.

The only one of those starters that didn’t play particularly well was Iutapi. And all were upgrades at their position.

And isn’t that the point? If they were starting, then they were an upgrade, assumably. While those third rounders couldn’t get on the field to even contribute, for the most part.

Even first rounder have to develop, but they don’t seem to have as long a road, hence being an upgrade almost immediately.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Iutapi definately isn't the only one imo

A big example was Trent Williams, he started off good but fizzled in the end. Washington is still looking for help on that O-Line.

They were upgrades I will say but not enough to ultimately justify them as the “end all” solutions to their respective team’s issues.

And again it takes 5 years to evaluate one’s draft, as even a player can have a great rookie season then fade into an afterthought ( Rashad Salaam takes the cake on this)

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

You place a lot of judgement on players in their first year....

Especially considering that any one of them would have been an upgrade to any position on the line.

Just asking, but were you expecting them to look like seasoned veterans in their first year? I’d say the whole lot were pretty good for rookies.

And I’d say that any time a rookie can come in and oust a veteran from a position, he’s justified the pick. Including J’Marcus Webb.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL, an upgrade to any position on OUR line. Think it's time for bed.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

And funny you should note the years it takes to evaluate...... :)

The general consensus seems to be three years.

2008 same positions

1st round averaged 3 seasons as primary starters, an average career AV of 20 and averaged 41 games.

3rd round averaged 1 year as primary starters, an average career AV of 5 and 26 games played.

4th round averaged 1 year starting, a career AV of 5 and 18 games played.

As you can see, It’s not getting better as time wears on, but worse.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm....

I always said 5 because in reality a good number of players’ careers vary so much that a player could be a downside for a couple years then suddenly a good coach comes along and they become instant superstars.

3 years is not enough time as it does take a good while to develop players with various skill levels.

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, I'm easy....

2006 Same positions

1st Rd averages 5 seasons as primary starters, 2 Pro Bowls each, a career AV of 34 and an average of 76 out of 80 games played.

2nd round averaged 4 years as starters, no PBs, a 26 career AV and 71 games played.

3rd round averaged 1 year starting, no PBs, a career AV of 13 and 46 games played.

4th round averaged 2 years starting, no PBs, a career AV of 17 and 42 games played.

5th round averaged 1 year starting, No PBs, a career AV of 11 and 37 games played.

6th round averaged 1 year starting, no PBs, a career AV of 8 and 24 games played.

And the 7th rounders averaged 1 year starting, no PBs, a career AV of 3 and 23 games played.

Again, it just gets worse as time goes on. And the bulk of the best O-linemen come from the first two round, after which you see a significant drop off in success rates.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most of the later round picks don't play nearly as much as the early rounders because they are not expected to do as much

Have you also noticed how many of those early rounders are still playing with significant PT?

Also I haven’t noticed any significant drop offs as less players are taken and kept from the later rounds because of impatiance. Most of them get cut then a good number of players find success on another team.

All and all if you have a staff that knows how to develop players and draft them then in theory you should be able to find great players in every round.

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly....

the vast majority of players from every round are still in the league, and it seems that more mid rounders were dropped due than late rounds (salary might make them a bit more patient with the 7th rounder than they are with the third round pick?)

But some of that is dispelled, as well, by the number of years as a primary starter. Sure, those later rounders are getting playuing time (significantly less, but it’s still there) but they aren’t starting. In fact, after the second round, there isn’t much starting time at all. You get less average playing time as a starter combined from rounds 3-5 than you do from a first rounder.

No matter how you spin it, the first round player is averaging 5 times the amount of time starting of the third rounder and 2 1/2 times the Career AV. That is a massive difference between just two rounds.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

they should stay put in the first round

then trade up to the second and third rounds with the late round picks.
I’d be happy with a first rd, 2 second rd picks and a third rd pick instead of 7 4-7th rd picks.

by Berserker333 on Apr 22, 2011 10:25 PM CDT reply actions  

It depends

If they have 5 guys who they rated the same at 29, then trade down a few spots to garner an extra 4th or 5th rounder and still get one of those players.

If not, take the BPA. Preferably a DT, OT, CB, or G.

"Our ideas held no water but we used them like a dam" - Modest Mouse

by propheteer on Apr 22, 2011 11:31 PM CDT reply actions  

trading places

why not trade up and grab the player you actually want

by stepeo on Apr 22, 2011 11:43 PM CDT reply actions  

After thinking all of this through...

This isn’t a bad idea. Draft to get the players you are targeting.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 22, 2011 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would be happy with finding ONE impact player this draft so trade up not down

Anything more than that is a bonus, Not having a first round pick was felt the past few years, we need to trade the other direction if we are planning on dealing, I would rather trade up into the teens and get a guaranteed impact player than trade down and get a quantity of mediocrity. Its the top guys that move the needle in this league and we need to get at least one star per draft. Trade north not south I say, sending our first and second for a pick in the teens where we get one of the top talents on the board is the way to go in my opinion. Jusy wonder if there is a team who would make that deal.

White Sox fans need not apply.

by Bears-Cubs Bulls on Apr 23, 2011 1:15 AM CDT reply actions  

agree...

If you can get one elite player from each draft, I would consider that a good thing. Move up if you need to, but the only way I would trade back is to someone tryin to get a qb and gett the 33-38th pick in return.

by Ryan21 on Apr 23, 2011 10:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Haha...

If Bears trade their 1st and 2nd pick, the highest pick they can get the 17th pick (and Bears have to throw in their 6th as well). They could get the 18th pick and 5th rounder or the 19th and 4th rounder. Then again… who the “guaranteed impact player” you looking at the late teens-early 20s??? Just curious…

Patriots- 17th pick
Chargers- 18th pick
Giants- 19th pick

I don’t see Chargers or Giants trading down there as they both need help. Patriots would trade down, but I’m not sure if the Bears offer would be the best and Pats usually like to get future picks. Plus I think it’s going to the 28th pick that Patriots will trade down instead of the 17th pick.

Also, do you trust that Angelo would get the right pick or get that “impact” player?

by bart s on Apr 23, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Bears absoultely need to stay put...

and get a star. There’s a reason getting Cutler cost two first round picks among other things. The Bears have not had a drafting success in the first round since Olsen; and his successes are not necessarily legend. And the second round successes are lacking short of Forte. The problem, IMO, is that the Bears keep getting 2nd tier or solid back-up guys all over the field by drafting some prospects in the later rounds as you have detailed EXTENSIVELY above. Even with buying into a few true stars (Cutler, Peppers) they have failed to assemble enough great players around them to be more than just occasionally competitive. Guys like Graham, CW, Bowman, K Davis, R Davis, Roach, Hilly, Omiyale, A Peterson, Afalava, Payne, Wolfe, and many others are good guys that we all want to root for as underdogs. Yes they will have occasional good games or make a great play. But they are not good enough to be consistent starters.
    The Bears need simply to get at least one guy out of the first 2 rounds this year that is an obvious starter from day one. I understand injuries can come into play, but if JA et al fail again, the Bears will struggle to be more than an also ran in the playoffs. The Bears do have a chance to get some great late round talent as well, say some interior o-linemen and LB prospects and possibly an RB. But they need the first three rounds to provide 3 legitimate answers at DT, OT, CB, or WR. They can still draft for best available, just within these positions.

by LostInSTL on Apr 23, 2011 7:54 AM CDT reply actions  

It's a lot easier to draft for Best Available Player when......

you have so many needs, isn’t it? LOL!

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kinda like being the tallest midget...

I got that one nailed!

Seriously, wouldn’t it be great to have the solid core of guys the Bears have with 2-3 stars out of this draft. I really like the kid from NC Little at WR. I get the sense he’s going to be the guy everyone wishes they had drafted. Or that DT Phil Taylor, now he’s scary on this Bears D-line. Or Davon House from NM could play opposite Tillman for the next 3-5 years. Or Sherrod at OT, now there’s a starter immediately. So many possibilities for actual starters caliber players. No more dubious pool jumpers or Dan Bazuins or other head scratchers in the first 3 rounds. Just get guys who have a solid consensus upside and draft and develop them. Yes a few many not work out, but at least try to succeed with obvious talent and then throw darts in the later rounds. Seriously, does anyone not think the Bears could have gotten Bazuin or Gilbert in the 6th round. Quit wasting the early round picks on the “finds” and get some solid talent.

by LostInSTL on Apr 23, 2011 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about Marcus Cannon?

That dude is a beast!

And I agree with your assessment about the draft, Jerry Angelo has to have a grand slam this year because with a good number of issues that need to be resolved combined with this CBA mess which prevents FA he has absolutely 0 margins for error this year.

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I concur on Cannon...

so much so that I put it into a fan post…which I do not do very often.

by LostInSTL on Apr 23, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have him in my mock as well

In this fan post

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Taylor seem more like a 3-4 nose to me, but the rest I would have no problem with.....

especially House.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, House would be a great player to have

Again I ask the question, have any Bears coaches or scouts looked at House?

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can't find anything saying that they have worked him out or were paying special attention to him :(

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bummer :(

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bazuin had a 2nd to 3rd round grade.....

Gilbert too. They were both taken in the general area that most of the “experts” expected them to fall in. Bazuin just got hurt and tried to come back too soon, which forced a second surgury on him. Gilbert was a horrific bust, but as much fun as I make of Angelo for drafting the infamous pool-jumper, they weren’t exactly reaching by anyones standards at the time.

That being said, I’m hoping along with you that they figure out how to avoid these types of busts, both injury and mysterious.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bazuin was a good college player

and was a good fit for the system they wanted, but he just got hurt and like you said tried to come back too soon.

It’s a shame.

Gilbert was just…. Not a smart football player. All the athletic ability you could want, but none of the instinct. I think he would have been a better Dt in this system, but early on they tried forcing him outside and i think that ruined him.

And what baout Iglasias? I think he could have been a good reciever, but he never saw the field.

I'll roll up

by suckmyditka on Apr 23, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I’ve wondered if it was Martz’ arrival and the win-now-or-get-fired air of the Bears’ coaching staff last offseason that doomed Iglesias’ chances in Chicago. It takes a couple of years to learn his offense so he would have been a bit of a luxury especially if he was drafted without the Martzfense in mind.

Acreman20: 127 hours is pretty decent.
awfullyquiet: How long is that movie?
Acreman20: 93 minutes.

by Spongie on Apr 23, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah... i'm not sure

because in college Iglesias was a machine. A very solid possession receiver.

I'll roll up

by suckmyditka on Apr 23, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

They were panicking though, with the Gilbert pick, when the player they’d been targeting got take just beforehand and Jerry ended up scrambling to take a player who didn’t fit the scheme.

Acreman20: 127 hours is pretty decent.
awfullyquiet: How long is that movie?
Acreman20: 93 minutes.

by Spongie on Apr 23, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Little...

I’m drinkin that cool aid. We need to get him. That would be the only reason I would trade down, but then its not a guarntee we get him. I would not be disappointed if we took him in the first. I can see someone taking a risk on him. I don’t know where he is projected and he is going to be a project for Martz to hone his route running but he has great hands and is an absolute beast in yac. A former RB who doesn’t go out of bounds or shy from hits. I say get him if he is a reach/risk. You don’t win a SB without skill position players. Our offense lost us the NFC championship. Our D played well enough to win.

by Ryan21 on Apr 23, 2011 10:30 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

4’10".

Acreman20: 127 hours is pretty decent.
awfullyquiet: How long is that movie?
Acreman20: 93 minutes.

by Spongie on Apr 23, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent Point!

We could throw a dart at a “chart of positions”
… and make a strong argument for where ever it hit, … LOL!!

pbanachi

by pbanachi on Apr 23, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seeing Mr. Payne Mentioned almost makes me sad

As you may know he was my second favorite Bear and my favorite Bear on defense. Boo!

But anyway it seems Jerry does best in the 2nd to 5th rounds. Idk

I'll roll up

by suckmyditka on Apr 23, 2011 8:19 AM CDT reply actions  

I liked him as a backup and as a contributor here.

But he wasn’t the answer as a starter. Unfortunately. We had to trade away Jamar Williams to get back The Hitman because he wasn’t fitting the bill. And the Bears wouldn’t have had such a need at LB if Williams was still here.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Apr 23, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.. I mean i love the Hitman , but

I think Payne would have been a fine role player and Williams would have fit in great at sam..

But hey Hitman’s back and better than ever and Major Wright looks very promising. I think the Bears are the 2nd best team in the division and 2 linemen and a DB away from being the best team in the division.

I'll roll up

by suckmyditka on Apr 23, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

All depends how far the trade down is

With pick 29 we will need a big name to fall at a position we have no interest in or a player.

A team is going to have to be desperate to trade up say 10 spots and give up their 3rd round too.

I agree with staying put unless another team is offering something crazy stupid. Then grab the guy you want even if it is considered reaching because many of these round graded prospects will be gone each round by the ends of the rounds.

by TheMan1 on Apr 23, 2011 8:31 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

This is

perhaps the best article I’ve seen on this site. Well done.

Angelo doesn’t do any better trading down than he does sticking with his original pick. There have been a couple times (most notably when they traded the 4th pick and got Haynes and Grossman, but really wanted Jimmy Kennedy and Grossman) where he traded down and missed the guy he was targeting, and other times where he traded back abd took busts.

I don’t think he should move up either, because he’s not good at identifying top-end talent, the OTs seems to be clustered together in value, and Angelo has a low enough success rate in the draft that he can’t afford to give away picks.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Apr 23, 2011 8:34 AM CDT reply actions  

None of the OL really stand out...

I’d trade up for a WR or CB before an OL. But I don’t really wanna trade up unless someone like Julio Jones falls. But the price would be steep. Maybe trade up in front of the eagles for Jimmy Smith?

by Ryan21 on Apr 23, 2011 10:35 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's worth noting

That the defense is loaded with 1st & 2nd round talent (not all the Bears 1st or 2nd) and it is one of the better defenses in the NFL. The offense on the other hand has a couple of 1st rounders and a 2nd puts up some of the worst numbers in the NFL.

The question of trading down would seem to be a question of what you would rather have. Less more talented players or more less talented players. Seems like a no brainer to me.

FOL LOL M & M are FOL. and how many people hit the roof when lovie hired a under qualified Ron Rivera to be DC.

Am I the only one that actually sees some developmental success stories on the Bears?

. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank

by ed_brown on Apr 23, 2011 4:47 PM CDT reply actions  

The reason we should trade down into the early second is because there is a good chance all the 1st round players we would want/need will be gone

And you look at the Pats and Ravens they have a bunch of good players drafted from the second round or lower. Plus like its already been stated repeatedly Jerry Angelo has yet to draft a player from the 1st round that has been worthy of that pick. Chris Williams still has a little bit of time left, but not much.

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Apr 23, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

worthy?

with as many wants and needs on this team it is hard to think that there will not be a worthy player at the 29th pick.

. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank

by ed_brown on Apr 23, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

like the pro bowl statistics

But wouldn’t starters of Super Bowl contenders be more accurate? We have at least 7 pro-bowlers on our team (Cutler, Hester, Knox, Kreutz?, Urlacher, Briggs & Peppers) and some more should be pro-bowlers (Harris and Forte for example. Others as well). The question is what calibur players are required to take us all the way?
Right now our needs (not wants) are OLG, DT & CB. Did the last 10 Super bowl contenders have 1st rounders at these positions? Or maybe if we can trade down and pick up 3-4 2nd rounders at these positions, it will be enough to let our team leaders lead the way to glory?
Really enjoy reading your posts! Most enlightening!

Encouraging professional football in Israel

by BearDownIsrael on Apr 23, 2011 7:45 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

i dont see how DT is a bigger need than WR...

We have Melton,Toeina,…well shoot. Maybe it is. Don’t see why we can’t resign Adams. I still don’t wanna burn a 1st rd pick on DT.

by Ryan21 on Apr 23, 2011 9:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Put my money where my mouth is!!

checked out every superbowl contender since 2006 including our own bears.
1. since 2006, every team had only one first rounder on the offensive line, besides for our Bears who had 2 1st rounders and still lost.
2. every team had only one 2nd rounder besides the 2010 GB Packers with 2 and the 2006 contenders with none.
3. some teams had UDFA and still managed to win.
Can’t make the chart nicely here so here’s a link to google docs.

HERE

Definitely encourages trading down!!

Encouraging professional football in Israel

by BearDownIsrael on Apr 24, 2011 8:21 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Nice work.

That’d be one hell of a FanPost.

www.twitter.com/DaneNoble

by Dane Noble on Apr 24, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

thanks!

It’s all yours! Was off this week for passover holidays. Won’t have time anymore to do anything with it.
But I do believe that the first pick in the draft won’t be a QB, minimizing our chances of having one of the top OLs falling to us and increasing the chances that a team would be interested in trading up to get a QB in the late first round.
Then it’s up to JA and Lovie to draft wisely….

Encouraging professional football in Israel

by BearDownIsrael on Apr 24, 2011 9:52 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

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