Kudos to Jerry Angelo on Defensive Line
by Dominique Blanton on Jun 23, 2011 7:00 PM CDT
in Roster Analysis
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PrintThere's a lot of reasons to beat up on Jerry Angelo. One, off the top of my head, is how he looks at the wide receiver position, and who can ever forget at the end of the 2008 season with his "It all starts with the Quarterback" statement? He most likely had Peyton Manning on the mind when making that statement, but let's not forget that Manning had Marvin Harrison when he first arrived there and Bill Polian would later hook Manning up with Reggie Wayne who he took in the end of the 1st round in 2001. In addition, we also beat up on Angelo because of his philosophy on building the offensive line. Instead of investing mid round draft picks on OL, Angelo likes to sign aging OL and also hang on to linemen for a little too long.
While Angelo gets beat up for some issues with this team, he has done plenty of good things for this team. Yes, the obvious biggest one is the acquisition of QB Jay Cutler, giving the Bears its most talented QB possibly in franchise history. The other that seems to fly under the radar is how good Angelo is at crafting together Defensive Line talent.
Here's timeline look at how this defensive line was put together by Angelo
NT Anthony Adams: signed 4 year contract with Chicago (3/30/07). Signed through 2010
When San Francisco gave up on Adams, it was with the thought that he wasn't an ideal fit as a 3-4 NT. Jerry Angelo signed Adams to a 4 year contract to fill the NT void that was previously filled by the trouble Tank Johnson. Adams has been one of the most consistent defensive linemen on the roster, and figures to be a high priority re-signing once the labor issues are solved.
NT Matt Toeaina: Signed by Chicago off the Bengals practice squad (12/12/07). SIGNED through 2010
The Bears plucked a steal off the Bengals practice squad with DT Matt Toeaina. Toeaina filled in well at the 3 technique when Tommie Harris was struggling mightily at the position. Ideally Toeaina should be a NT in this scheme who can sometimes fill in at the 3 technique position.
DE Israel Idonije Signed 4-year contract with Bears (3/27/06)... Signed 2-year extension with Bears (5/29/06). SIGNED through 2011
Israel Idonije started his Bears career as a DT who would come in and give Tommie Harris a breather or pair up with Harris in passing situations. Idonije slimmed down from 290 to 270 to play Left DE and posted a career high in sacks with 8. Idonije should continue to pick up where he left off in the 2010 season.
DT Henry Melton: Drafted in the fourth round (105th overall) by the Bears in the 2009 NFL Draft... Agreed to a 4-year contract with Chicago (5/29/09). SIGNED through 2012
The Bears coaches seem to have always envisioned Melton as a pass rushing 3 technique even when he arrived to Chicago at 260 pounds. At a rumored 280 pounds last season, Melton made his presence felt in pass rush situations in the interior of the defense even though the stats might tell you otherwise. Now at 294 pounds, the coaches have high expectations for Melton, who should help fill the 3 technique void left by Harris.
DE Corey Wootton: 5/19/2010 Signed a four-year, $2.297 million contract.
Wootton earned more playing time towards the end of the season and made the most of it. Fans should expect him to get more playing time at Left DE this season. It will be interesting to see what a high work ethic guy like Wootton has done in the weight room this off-season.
DE Julius Peppers: Signed 6-year contract with Chicago (3/5/2010). SIGNED THROUGH 2015
What more can you say about arguably the best DE in the league? If he's not on this DL I would have never thought of this post. He's very capable of making the rest of the DL players around him better (see Israel Idonije) and we should continue to see him making the players around him better while also consistently making plays himself.
DT Stephen Paea: 2011 2nd round draft pick #53
1st round talent that slipped to the 2nd round because of a knee injury at the senior bowl, Paea will most likely be the starting 3 technique when the season starts and on passing downs will move over to NT to make room for Melton; which should give the Bears an added pass rush in the interior that they've been lacking for a couple years now. Paea is one of the main reasons why the Bears defensive interior line play should be much improved.
As much as I beat up on Jerry Angelo and deservedly so, I have to give credit when it's due. When it comes to building a defensive line, he knows what he's doing.
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why didn't he do the same with the O-line?
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Pool Jumpers excluded....
I had to throw it in there. He has far more hits recently than misses on the D-line.
Jay Cutler is still my quarterback.
by Sam Householder on Jun 23, 2011 7:37 PM CDT reply actions
Drafting vs. FA acquisitions
He still hasn’t proven anything in the draft on D-Line. Melton, Paea, and Wootton may (or may not) all (or some) turn out to be starters (or busts) worth investing in, but we don’t know yet.The rest were FA signings.
Angelo total draft history at D-Line: 16 total picks. Sure-fire starters we know will perform in 2011 from those 16 picks: 0. Now, he can reverse that trend fast if Melton, Paea, and Wootton all become consistent contributors…but that is a lot of draft picks over 8 years to still not have a “sure thing” left. Alex Brown was the best of the bunch, and was never a 10+ sack player. Anderson had 1 good season. Harris had 3 good seasons, and you can say don’t blame his injury on Angelo…except everyone knew he had busted knees going into the draft, and I want more than 3 consistent years out of a 1st round DT.
DE Alex Brown, DT Ian Scott, DT Tron Lafavor, DE Michael Haynes, DE Claude Harriot, DT Terry Johnson, DT Tommie Harris, DE Mark Anderson, DT Dusty Dvoracek, DE Dan Bazuin, DE Ervin Baldwin, DT Marcus Harrison, DE(DT) Henry Melton, DT Jarron Gilbert, DE Corey Wootton, DT Stephen Paea….
I hope not and don’t think it will be the case, but what if Melton can’t step up and be an every down type? What if Wootton’s sole great moment in life (Epic as it was) is the Favre sack? What if Paea turns out to be a solid run defense guy, but can’t penetrate an NFL line?
Angelo does well in Free Agency, and I give him total credit for that, but we wouldn’t need those free agents (and trades, Ogunleye) if the team could draft and develop real starters.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jun 23, 2011 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
AMEN!!!
Our drafting has been crap for far too long. You don’t build a team through free agency, just ask Dan Snyder how that worked out for him. We draft chumps and people with injuries every year, I’m hoping Ruskell will help to improve on that, but I looked at the players that Seattle drafted and it didn’t give me much hope.
by Berserker333 on Jun 23, 2011 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
Spend 100 million on Peppers and anyones D-line starts looking up.
His misses and need to spend to make a D-line speaks volumes.
No Brendon speaks volumes and you and Berserker and some others that havn't shown up yet applaud.
George Allen built some pretty good teams by not wasting time on unproven rookies and building his teams from proven veterans. I’m not suggesting the Bears do this but there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Last year we had a very average pass rush, but was very good at stopping the run lets hope your wrong because Angelo’s move to improve the pass rush was drafting Wooten and Paea.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
by ed_brown on Jun 23, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
P.S. who is the Bears 3rd all-time sack leader?
Alex Brown just another JA draft mistake.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
I think Jerry has taken a step in the right direction after this year's draft.
And since we are talking about D-Lineman how about some love for Corey Wooton?!
Oh, and yes Tommie Harris is not our favorite player but you have to admit we can’t blame ole Jerry for Tommie’s injuries, and before he got injured I think Tommie Harris was viewed as the most dangerous DT in the entire NFL. Just my 2 cents though.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jun 23, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Good call on Alex Brown
I did identify him as the best of the bunch, and he was a solid starter…but he was never a premiere pass rusher. Good, but not elite.
I also recognized Angelo’s success in Free Agency…but I have no respect for his drafting acumen.
Free Agents have value and add value, but it is better to add them on your terms and not be need driven. Good drafting is how you get long term answers, free agency is how you get short term answers…In the end, answers are answers, I’d just like more long term certainty for the team. GB doesn’t have to wonder who will play Nose Tackle or who will rush the passer in 2011, 2012, 2013 and on (unless something awful happens). We don’t have that luxury from draft picks.
By the way, Allen was a heck of a ball coach and won a lot of division titles, but he only made 1 Super Bowl appearance and brought no championships at the NFL level…and I personally believe part of the reason the Rams and Redskins couldn’t get over the hump under Allen was their lack of young, elite, explosive play makers. Vets are solid and dependable, and so were Allen’s teams, and I don’t besmirch his wonderful career, but winning a championship has to be of the utmost concern…
And Angelo doesn’t have Allen’s track record, either.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jun 24, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Look Brendan you know as well as anyone that the draft is a crap shoot.
most players who get drafted fail to make a splash in the NFL. The draft is only one wrench in the toolbox and it is rarely a tool that makes an immediate impact. The fact is you build a team through the draft and F/A not just one or the other.
Listing Jerry’s draft mistakes and declaring him a terrible GM is no better than name calling. But then who has time to do a comprehensive evaluation of all the NFL GM’s draft history and tally up their successes and failures.
Other GM’s acquire players through F/A and are declared geniuses, Jerry acquires J.Peppers and he is declared a moron because he didn’t draft Peppers.
George Allen was our Defensive Coordinator for the 1963 Championship team one of the best defensive teams in NFL history and the last Bear team where some players played both ways.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
by ed_brown on Jun 24, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
completely agree.
I didn’t say he was a terrible GM, I said he was a terrible drafter. I also said he does well in FA…I think he does due diligence on veterans very well, even with our busted FA signings, because they don’t leave us in a cap-nightmare hell (ala Washington).
All I said (title of my post) is comparing FA vs. drafting, he has had success in one (FA) and none that is sure to help us yet in the other (draft).
Look, its been 8 years, and we are not 100% certain anyone we have drafted will start 16 games for our D-Line. All I did was point out that I don’t like that.
Calling the draft a crap shoot is a cop out. People call FA a crap shoot too. The reality is, some teams draft well, consistently. No one drafts a 100% success rate, but it isn’t blind luck that lets the Steelers, Patriots, and others do what they do. Its not a crap shoot, its a systematic evaluation process. It is not a science because it is a subjective evaluation process based on people, but its still a process. If it were REALLY a crapshoot, no one would dedicate the resources to preparation teams currently do.
I am very down on Angelo’s drafting acumen. I am not 100% anti-Angelo as a football smart person.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jun 24, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Believe me I have never been a fan of Angelo.
I call it a crap shoot because of the huge difference between college ball and pro ball. Lots of high draft choices thought to be sure things in the NFL just didn’t make it. Guys like Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. It must be easier to evaluate F/A’s because you have a chance to breakdown their play at the pro level. Angelo hasn’t had much luck drafting players for either line but we the fans don’t really know the process that led to those picks and how much was bad luck or poor scouting or poor evaluating or injuries we just know we don’t like the end result.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
true enough
but he hires the scouts, too…
I think we are of the same opinion to be honest, and just came at it from different directions. He has done decent/average overall, with a few nice moves (Cutler, Peppers, Briggs) but has a poor drafting process/poor evaluators set up and doesnt get a lot of success there. He is nearly 100% inept at building offense, and we throw so much signing/draft pick wise at the defense, it seems to dillude the success he has had.
I dont think he will ever rank in my top 10 GMs, and he won’t turn us into a dynasty…but we might get a super bowl from this staff, and that would be enough for me.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jun 24, 2011 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Dan Hampton
Alex Brown is 4th. And in Hampton’s first few years sacks wasn’t an official stat.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jun 24, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
how about Doug Atkins?
they didn’t even call them sacks when he had a bunch of them
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Someone should go back and check film to give the old timers their sacks
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jun 24, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
a lot of those games are not on film
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
your right and Adewale Ogunleye is tied for 5th with Trace Armstrong
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Does well in free agency
minus massive contracts to Chester Taylor, Brandon Manumaleuna, and Orlando Pace. I’d say he’s slightly above adequate in free agency. Maybe borderline well. But you nailed it one we wouldn’t need free agents if this guy could draft his IQ in starters.
Above all; keep 'em guessing, never let them lose their sense of confusion.
There's many ways to building a defensive line.
I like how Jerry uses both resources to build that area of the defense. His drafting of defensive lineman have been far from great, but its far from worst compared to other franchises around the league.
by Dominique Blanton on Jun 23, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
For a guy whose philosophy is "build through the draft"
JA has been a disappointment. He harps on and on about how important the draft is but his results are so mixed. For every Alex Brown there is a Dusty Dvorchek and even his hits, like Tommie Harris or Tank Johnson, flamed out before they could be solidified as wonderful, productive picks.
At the end of the day I think Jerry Angelo might be the most polarizing figure in our franchises history. He’s NEVER been consistent. For every good move there is one or even two blunders.
Jay Cutler is still my quarterback.
by Sam Householder on Jun 24, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
That how it goes with most GM's around the league. You not going to hit on every defensive line draft pick.
Dusty Dvorecek thing was that he just couldn’t stay healthy at the next level and you can’t fault Angelo for that. Tommie Harris was a great pick in my opinion, and Tank Johnson was a gamble but when given a opportunity to play he was solid. Most of Angelo D-line picks have been mid to late round picks, so I will like to see what he can do when using 1st round picks on DL players.
by Dominique Blanton on Jun 24, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
To piggy back on Brendan
even the blind squirrel finds a nut. If you draft enough at one position sooner or later your bound to find a starter or two. Draft 6-10 guys at the same positions (namely DT, DE and Safety) over the course of many years and you’d think you’d find a few all-pro’s. What do we have. An adequate group with the possible arrow pointed in the right direction. Kinda miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, hit, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, bunt… repeat until exhausted.
Above all; keep 'em guessing, never let them lose their sense of confusion.
lol! I love the blind squirrel comparison
I think you may have uncovered Jerrys secret draft day weapon
by IndyBearsFan88 on Jun 24, 2011 2:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If a guy gets hurt early in his pro career then he's a miss
and a testament to your blind squirrellyness.
t
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
sometimes
you can’t blame freak accidents on the GM, but Tommie Harris came with known health issues, so I do attribute that to Angelo. Every organization going into that 2004 draft knew he was a health risk from day 1. Columbo, for example, I am not mad we released, even though he is a good tackle, because we hung by him and his injuries so long it was time to let him go
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jun 24, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
we got 3 great years out of Tommie
that is not a wasted draft pick , He gets his big contract and then can’t play any longer? Lovie should have cut him loose a lot sooner. Tommie is not a good example but there are several others who looked great in college and turned into duds as soon a JA drafts them. If he was a blind squirrel how in the world did he manage to draft some of our favorite players? Maybe its not an exact science, maybe you have to be good and lucky to load your team up with future HOF’ers.
LOL I have NFL channel on and just watched Carimi as they were going to break say " It’s going to be close guys close but I have to go with the Bears 54-6 sorry guys DA BEARS"
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
I meant to point out that there is a lot of luck/chance involved in a draft
but that if we keep drafting the same positions sooner or later we’re bound to catch a break. I just wish Angelo would act with consistency on BOTH lines and quit obsessing over safety quite so much. But I get the feeling I could tell you rain is wet and you could tell me that the sun rises every morning and somehow we’d still manage a debate over it.
Above all; keep 'em guessing, never let them lose their sense of confusion.
blame Dominique Blanton he knows you can't give JA any kudos
that and Brendan being Dane’s twin brother!
Dave your one of my guys, you and Dane and Lester and Kev and Pete and Steve and SMD and the rest of the guys. Here we are family, and the only family I know that doesn’t argue a lot is the Cleavers
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
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