The 10 Most Important Bears for 2011 - #2 The Tackles
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 9:00 AM CDT
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Checking in at #2 in my 10 Most Important Bears series are two Bears linemen with a combined one year of experience in the NFL. Rookie Gabe Carimi and 2nd year pro J'Marcus Webb are both expected to be playing at the tackle spots in 2011. Who's on which side is still to be determined, but it dosen't mater. Each will face their fair share of pass rushers trying to take out Jay Cutler.
This series is my subjective look at which Chicago Bears will need to come through in order for them to have a successful season. So if you disagree with the list so far, I don't care! Improved line play is critical to keep the run game a factor in '11, and to allow the Mike Martz offense to evolve into the Mike Martz offense.
Mike Martz did a good job scaling back some of his passing game and staying with the run more than he would have liked last year. But the Bears need to be able to throw the ball better to take that next step as an offense. Protecting Cutler while opening up the offense a bit more is a must. I think the plan may have been to have Carimi start on the right side with Webb flipping to the left, but the lockout may force their hand into keeping each guy in his comfort zone.
Even though Webb was a left tackle all through college, his most recent play came on the right side, and Carimi just finished up as Wisconsin's left tackle. Keeping them both where they've been makes sense. I would like to see a camp battle for the left tackle position, but with no OTA's this off season, that will be hard to do. They want to plug in their 5 guys from day 1 and only change if they have to.
All signs point to the Bears offensive line being better in 2011, but it's on the two young tackles to solidify the line and give their franchise QB some time to work.
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Chris Williams?
If the Bears sign a couple of Guards in Free Agency like I want them to and believe they will, where does Chris Williams fit into this?
IMO, Williams should also be given the chance to win one of the starting Tackle jobs this year. What I’d like to see, ideally, is that all 3 (Williams, Webb, Carimi) battle for the LT position, the losing two then battle for the RT position, and the loser there becomes the automatic Swing tackle, maybe with Gate 68 providing secondary Swing duties at 4 of the 5 positions.
It wasn’t that long ago that we were all proclaiming Chris Williams as our LT of the Present. In fact, it was about 14 months ago, give or take a month or two. I haven’t seen anything out of his Tackle play that would lead me to believe that he has no future on this team as a Tackle. As a Guard? No chance. But as a Tackle, I’ve certainly seen far, far worse than Chris Williams.
by Doshi on Jul 21, 2011 9:19 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Williams best shot is at guard
and as the swing tackle. Not an ideal career path for the 14th pick, but there it is.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't get it, personally.
Chris Williams best time as a Bear came in his games at Tackle in 2009. In 2010, in a new system, he played less than 2 total games at tackle before injury. Post-injury, he went to guard not because he was inept at Tackle (to my understanding) but because the Bears trusted noone else at Left Guard anymore and didn’t want to rotate 3 players at once to get him back on the line.
Chris Williams at RT in 2009 played far better than Webb did and showed strong flashes at Left Tackle to finish the season. Yes, Webb was a rookie, but when it comes to on the field performance, I don’t care that you were a late round draft pick, your performance should be “who plays better”.
Chris Williams has injured himself out of a job, twice, but has never played himself out of a job.
Based on that, I don’t see any reason for the constant tide of force pushing for A) Williams to be declared a bust and cut or relegated to a career at Guard and B) for Webb, who struggled awfully, even late into the season at Right Tackle, to suddenly be our starting Left Tackle. Give me a competition, sure. Maybe he improved a lot in the offseason, and I’ll take the best player any day…But I’d take Williams and Carimi before Webb as starters based on film available, college and NFL, to date. Don’t start potential, train it.
The eye test tells me Webb is one of the worst pass blockers in the NFL. PFF Tackle ratings concurred. Now and then he gets his hands on a guy and embarrasses them with power…but against speed rushers, ESPECIALLY blizting OLBs and DBs, Webb looks like a complete statue.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 21, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
he was horrendus last year at LT
All preseason he was brutal, then he was terrible before he was hurt. I’d love for him to be a stud tackle, but for whatever reason he didn’t match his ’09 play.
And Webb played better as the year went on. You mention PFF, they had his grades getting better as the year went on too.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't it Chris Williams that Haynesworth pushed into the QB?
Or did I make that up?
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Yes, it was.
That’s the biggest reason why he shouldn’t play guard. He doesn’t seem to have the upper body strength to deal with the bigger guys.
But if you watch his feet and the way that he slides and gets in front of speedsters, he looks like a decent enough Tackle.
by Doshi on Jul 21, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
100% was
Hence, no guard.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 21, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Webb...
Had one positive rated game all season, playoffs included, in the PFF study. His run blocking improved as the season progressed, but his pass blocking grades remained abysmal.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 21, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Saw him in training camp.
He was the only guy who could even remotely move Pep off his initial rush trajectory. And he was doing it consistently. Bulls or spins, only Williams was doing anything against the beast known as Pep.
I don’t know what happened to him during the preseason and those first couple of games. I just know what my eyes told me. If Pep was only having problems against Williams, he can’t be too bad, can he?
Just went back through PFF site
Pass Blocking Efficiency: Omiyale and Webb both placed bottom 15 at their positions…Garza and Williams placed bottom 20 at Guard.
NFC Championship Game: “RT J’Marcus Webb (-7.6) …He allowed eight pressures throughout the game, and was by far the worst in run blocking for the Bears in the game”
NFC Divisional Round: “RT J’Marcus Webb (+0.3)… He did allow a sack and two pressures, but he had a nice time run blocking”
Week 17: “RT J’Marcus Webb (-0.4) of the Bears had one of his better games in run blocking, but also allowed a sack and three pressures.”
Week 16: “RT J’Marcus Webb (+2.1) unexpectedly came up with the best game of his young career. He was perfect in pass protection for just the second time this season, but still has the second worst overall rating for NFL tackles this season”
Week 15: " RT J’Marcus Webb (-4.1) marked the sixth time this year he has given up five quarterback disruptions, and his developmental process is making life harder than it needs to be for Jay Cutler."
Week 14: "Bears RT J’Marcus Webb has graded as the second worst tackle this year, but posted his best game and first in the positive against the Patriots (+0.6). "
Week 13: “Pass protection is still a major issue for Chicago, with both Frank Omiyale (-2.7) and J‘Marcus Webb (-2.7) struggling badly in (both players graded positively against the run). They combined to give up 10 total pressures on Cutler during this game, including a pair of sacks”
*self-correction, Webb had 3 positive games on the year, only one of which exceeded 1.0
**Webb’s improvement came almost exclusively on run plays, as he only posted two positive pass blocking games all season, against the Patriots and the Jets (Both teams with really good defenses; however, also known for not having good pass rushes.
- Final Note *
Pass Blocking grades on the season for 2010 Bears (lower score = better)
Frank Omiyale: 7.18
Chris Williams: 4.72
Olin Kreutz: 1.77 (top 10)
Roberto Garza: 4.26
Ja’Marcus Webb: 9.18 (2nd worst tackle grade, worst RT grade)
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 21, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I can spin the stats too!
His first start was week 5 and that was a positive pass blocking grade, weeks 6-11 were all negative pass blocking grades. In weeks 12-17 he had 2 neutral grades, 1 positive grade, and 3 negative grades. To me that’s an improvement.
I have my own issues with their grading system. Theoretically Webb can simply do his job for 50 plays (PFF grades that as a 0), make one exceptional play (PFF could give a +.5), and make 4 mistakes (PFF could give the 4 bad plays a combined -3.5).
So in 55 total plays, of which he only had 4 bad/missed blocks his game ends up being a negative at -3.
I broke down game film for Webb in Week 15 (a simple +/- system) and gave him a +49 (he had 12 plays I gave him a minus) PFF gave him an overall -4.1
I broke down his game in Week 14, PFF gave him a neutral .6 and I gave him a +41 (with 4 minuses)
I also graded his Week 5 start and he was
+40 (out of 57 plays, so 17 minuses) and PFF graded him with a -2.4.
In my opinion each play you either do your job or you don’t. Which is why my grades are a simple +/-. If his man beat his block and makes the play for a loss, that should be a negative. If his man beats the block after being driven back 5 yards and stops the ball carrier for a 7 yard gain, I’m giving the kid a plus.
PFF does a great job in grading each play, but you have to understand where they get their numbers.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I can agree to disagree
and I am not in love with PFF, but I cited PFF and so did you, so I thought I would post their publicly available lines from all the latter weeks…there was no spin, I cut and pasted each week, including the positive ones, from later in the season based on your assertion of his improvement.
I only have 4 games left DVRd, NFC Championship, SEA, NYJ, and @MIN (the rest gave way to child viewing material) and in all of those I can say with 100% certainty that I could not believe how inept Webb is against any situation involving what I consider a speed rusher (OLB, DB blitzers or smaller DEs). His ability to lock onto, and move, larger defenders improved quit a bit as the season went along, but his first step and ability to contain speed rushers was as bad in the NFC Championship game as it was in his first year of college… and I still maintain that C. Williams at RT in 2009 was FAR better than J. Webb at RT in 2010.
We saw C. Williams play one full game at LT in 2010, and it was a bad game…but no worse than most of Webb’s games the rest of the season at RT, especially the last one we played.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 21, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of spinning stats...
by your own grading breakdown, J. Webb was the worst Bears lineman on the team in week 15 when you broke down all the players…and that was his highest grade of the three you posted. A simple +/- is extremely flawed, because it makes a guy who does his job 55% of the time look like a positive.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 21, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
not flawed, it's used by most coaches.
The grade was highest because there were more offensive snaps. His best game was the Patriots game.
If a guy does his job, you can nitpick on his technique, but the bottom line is, did his man make the play?
It’s why so many people think Kreutz sucks now. He’s still effective because his technique is good and he positions himself so he’s in between the defender and the ball, but the eyes say he’s gets blown back sometimes.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
and that is why
Kreutz rates as a good pass blocker, but was a poor run blocker…because he gives ground. The eyeball test in that case would be correct…its why the Bears were near last in the NFL in runs “up the gut”…because Williams and Kreutz both had a rough time making forward progress against NFL DTs last year. His pass blocking was really good though, and that was noticeable too.
If Webb played every game like the Patriots game, I’d be glad to eat my words…but it was a team bad at rushing the passer, on a very slick surface, that had the game in pocket before halftime. The performance(s) against GB really bother me. Almost every eval I’ve seen questions Webb’s footwork/foot speed and ability to seal off speed rushers/blitzers. Its very common for a rookie to struggle at that too, but until he can, LT is not the place to be.
I promise I don’t hate him, I just don’t think he has performed as the 1st or 2nd best tackle on the team from what we have to look at for all the Tackles on our team. I’d take him over Schaffer, but not Williams or Omiyale yet. If he has improved a lot in the off-season, I’d love to be wrong and will be the first to cheer him on if he is starting come week 1…. I just hope its because he has earned it, and not because of his size and potential. Webb is exactly the build Tice loves, and Williams isn’t, I just hope its talent and performance based in the end.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 21, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with Les that Chris Williams was terrible at LT last year.
by Dominique Blanton on Jul 21, 2011 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
thats fair
but C. Williams only played 1 full game at LT last year.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 21, 2011 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
he was bad in the 4 preseason games too
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
also true.
But Webb was bad in all but 3 games of the season. Our line is bad enough right now that we are debating least bad in a new system, not most awesome performance. My point was Williams should be in the Tackle mix because of his ’09 performance and great ’10 training camp performance (to which Doshi testified, as I was not there).
I can accept, and agree with “Williams struggled in limited time in 4 pre-season games, and had a very bad night in week 1 at Left Tackle”…and it wasn’t encouraging. It also wasn’t any worse than Webb’s year at Right Tackle, an easier position.
Chris William’s play in 2009 and 2010 at the Tackle spot was better than that of Webb’s 2010 play at the Tackle spot, collectively. William’s was better on the right in 09 than on the Left (in limited time) in 10. Williams deserves every chance to compete for a Tackle spot. So does Webb.
My issue is not with the fact that Webb is getting a chance to be a starter, but that he is being annointed a Left Tackle when he only really had 3 good games in over a dozen starts last year, on the Right side, and his greatest weakess remains against speed players…Whereas my feeling is that William’s biggest issue remains power players, which just further makes the Guard transition seem silly.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 22, 2011 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions
"great" is relative.
Slowing down Pep is an achievement. But he didn’t stop him. And it was kinda akin to being the tallest midget out there…
lol
but isnt that the debate? Who are our tallest midgets…? Unless we sign a full sized man to go with Carimi (Free, Gaither) but that isn’t likely to happen.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 22, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd like to see him in the mix
I just don’t think the Bears do
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 22, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Whereas my feeling is that William’s biggest issue remains power players, which just further makes the Guard transition seem silly.
True, Fat Albert showed just how bad he is against the bull rush, but wasn’t Williams also getting skinned by Kameron Wimbley of the Raiders in the pre-season (gave up 3 or 4 sacks, if memory serves)? That’s when we were saying he couldn’t handle speed rushers.
Cosmis: JESUS LORD IN HEAVEN DANIEAL MANNING JUST KILLED A MAN
Cheating.
Carmini and Webb are in fact, distinct dudes. They would most certainly crush the chair if both put in the second seat together. If they’re both top five, then bump someone. If you mean whichever one ends up at left tackle, then say that.
My list. My rules.
The right side is just as important as the left. Think about all the great DE/OLB that rush the passer against the right tackle.
Maybe you put more importance on the left tackle, but I think blocking guys like Clay Mathews, John Abraham, Justin Tuck, an dRobert Mathis, not to mention the numerous DE/OLBs that start over the LT but flip to the RT during the game.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
links + thrills
Maybe you can put links to all the previous nine and an open thread to who we think will be number one. Thanks.
"Oy Vey, everyone's repeating everything in everymanner till this lockout's over"
by BearDownIsrael on Jul 21, 2011 10:42 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I have a full recap of links in the #1 post
In the mean time you can find them all in this section – Roster Analysis
And feel free to start the debate as to who’s #1 right here! It’s shouldn’t be that hard to figure out though…
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
It's me.
I’m the most important thing to the Bears Success in 2011.
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
winner winner
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 21, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
And feel free to start the debate as to who’s #1 right here! It shouldn’t be that hard to figure out though…
It’s Craig Steltz, isn’t it?
Cosmis: JESUS LORD IN HEAVEN DANIEAL MANNING JUST KILLED A MAN
It's Rashied, what the hell are you thinking?
My team is on the floor. -Coach Norman Dale
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 21, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Technically he’s not a Bear (has yet to be re-signed)!
Plus, three mentions of Steltz in the past few days might’ve been enough to give Dane an aneurysm.
Cosmis: JESUS LORD IN HEAVEN DANIEAL MANNING JUST KILLED A MAN
mentions of Steltz … to give Dane an aneurysm
That could form the basis of a tagline for the Bears Den…
Cosmis: JESUS LORD IN HEAVEN DANIEAL MANNING JUST KILLED A MAN
The Bears Den
…where yes, we are trying to give Dane an aneurysm. Craig Steltz sucks.
Weekend contributor at Windy City Gridiron
by Steven Schweickert on Jul 21, 2011 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
or
…where we try to give Dane an aneurysm by criticising Craig Steltz.
(Only, of course, you’d spell “criticising” with a z.)
Cosmis: JESUS LORD IN HEAVEN DANIEAL MANNING JUST KILLED A MAN
The Bears Den
“…where Dane says: ‘Make my day…’”
"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson; "More bell cow" - Lovie Smith
I am simply unable to gauge...
what will happen at the tackles this season. Webb could flip to LT and play well, Carimi could also start at LT and play well; or maybe at RT. C Williams might be what he was drafted to be, though I suspect that his days are numbered in small numbers. Omiyale is likely to be kept to retain depth, but I was hoping by now to get a good sense of what the line will look like and I simply just do not know. What I hope does not happen is the carousel of fits and starts and erratic play that became the trademark of 2010. My head hurts!
well at least you didn't get concussed.
For another head scratcher the Bears started to run better to the left when Williams moved to LG
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
In my opinion we leave Williams at LT Guard, and let Carimi and Webb fight for left tackle. The loser gets the right side and we all win. We have stability going forward, and I think that it is what is most important right now, granted Creutz is back under center , and Garza on the RG spot.
by transylvanian bear on Jul 21, 2011 11:38 AM CDT reply actions
I think we sign at least 1 O-lineman
Probably a guard who will take over for C-Will. I would love to see two linemen signed though.
by IndyBearsFan88 on Jul 21, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
i think the line is going to suck again this year.
period.
No workouts or minicamps = no time to gel befor the pre-season = pre-season is the gelling time for regular season.
blech
it’s gonna be another long year for mr cutler
I'll roll up
Even if they add a couple veteran pieces in free agency?
by Dominique Blanton on Jul 21, 2011 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
They would be fools not to give CWilliams a chance to be the LT
He was very effective early in his career, and was very ineffective in pre-season last year, so they need to find out which is the real CWilliams. Webb was at best a work in progress, but the talk about him playing LT this season is too frightening to think about. At best he remains at RT and shows signs of improvement. Carimi? Let him battle CWilliams, Webb and Omiyale for an OT spot. Maybe he wins the LT spot, or the RT spot. Maybe if CWilliams and Webb look good at the OT spots, Carimi moves to LG, which would be the best case scenario with the current cast of characters.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
I am with you on the battles...
but I doubt Carimi loses out on both tackle spots. It may be harder with less time (no OTAs/no mini camps), but if we can get 1 locked in at either right or left, it really then becomes a three man competition for the other 1 spot. I’ll take best man, and Les makes some great points about Webb…I just need to see more than potential first. But that’s why we pay the coaches…I just hope impressions, rather than performance, don’t restrict the competition.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
by Brendan Hess on Jul 22, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Chris Williams
has never been “very effective” in the NFL. He has always been somewhere between below-average and terrible. If Chris Williams and Webb are our OTs we won’t win 5 games. I’m all for giving him a chance to compete, but he should be competing with someone much more talented than he is.
DEJESUS!!!
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