Real Talk: Olin Kreutz

by Jacob Hayes on Jul 31, 2011 12:24 AM CDT

"Olin Kreutz is being shown the door over 500k? What an outrage!" This is the refrain I'm seeing repeated ad nauseum in the open threads and elsewhere. Why is this an outrage? He's a 34 year old center, definitively on the downside of his career. We offered him 3 million for a swan song season, he came back and demanded 5 million. That's fine. That's good negotiation. However, the Bears gave an ultimatum of 4 million and get in camp. Kreutz responded by asking for 500k more. For every single person lamenting the Bears blowing up the deal over 500k, you need to look also at Kreutz himself, and his willingness to do the same thing.

Olin Kreutz is not only ready to abandon ship over 500k, but he's willing to harm the Bears front office's ability to negotiate effectively in future deals for the same amount.

Olin didn't look great last year in run blocking, and while his pass blocking was decent, that has a lot more to do with the rest of the line being easier pickings than it does any miraculous effort.

Pass Rush is all about the path of least resistance, and does anyone in this thread really think that any other team sent anyone at any time at Kreutz instead of the young ungelled and often average skilled rest of the line?

Kreutz was without a doubt in decline last year, and will not be better this year with even less time to prepare. We need a new center next year either way, so we upped our initial offer for a swan song season by a million dollars, and told Kreutz that's it. He decided to come back again after being told that's it. To cave in, even over 500k, sets a terrible precedent in future negotiations. Our ultimatums would essentially become worthless. You don't want to eat crow and harm bargaining positions even over your star position, let alone an aging veteran in need of replacement.

You want to crow about loyalty and respect? Loyalty and respect got Kreutz an extra million. Kreutz thought greed and desperation would get him an extra 500k, instead it got him shown the door.

Are the Bears front office cheap for no reason at times? Sure. This isn't one of them.

This FanPost was written by a Windy City Gridiron member, and does not necessarily reflect the ideas or opinions of its staff or community.

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PFF grades of 34+ year old o-linemen last year:

Player name (2010 Age): 2010 rating….2009 rating

Matt Birk (34): 26.0………21.8
Jeff Saturday (35): 16.7………..13.5
Bobbie Williams (34): 15.2………..23.2
Stephen Neal (34): 4.8………..28.3
Casey Wiegmann (37): +1.4……..-2.2
Chad Clifton (34): -7.6……..-2.6
Alan Faneca (34): -11.3………-4.3
Flozell Adams (35): -15.2……-1.6

Tiny sample, but the three centers have held up surprisingly well, the three guards have been solid, and the tackles fell off harder. Active o-linemen leaders in games started as of the end of last year:

1. Faneca: 201
2. Flozell: 194
3. Wiegmann: 184
4. Olin: 183
5. Saturday: 172
…
Birk is at 155, Clifton at 154, Bobbie Williams at 121.

It’s possible that Olin, who has only completed his age-33 season, has the wear and tear of a 34/35 year old, and his dropoff last season lends some support to that. With Faneca gone and Flozell being so bad last year, Olin could easily be the active games started leader after this season.

I’m personally think the Bears should move on. Olin did a nice job in pass protection, but almost every center who wasn’t blocking for a mobile quarterback rated out decently in pass protection. There is some recent evidence to show that Olin could still be useful for another year.

by YaoPau on Jul 31, 2011 5:33 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

I am shocked we offered that much

4 million for a poor blocking center? If they paid him 5 mm I would be pissed.

We are serving up Carimi Pancakes!!

by tfrabotta on Jul 31, 2011 6:50 AM CDT reply actions

At this point , we should move on. He played poorly last year, with no push up-front , and letting people by at an alarming rate for Cutler. Over it already.

by transylvanian bear on Jul 31, 2011 7:10 AM CDT reply actions

I haven't given up hope he'll come back and sign the offer.

No other team is offering more and 4 million is an accurate assessment of his current tangible and intangible contributions to the team.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent - Salvor Hardin

by badsamaritan on Jul 31, 2011 7:13 AM CDT reply actions

Only if someone apologizes for the one-hour ultimatum.

I’d be glad to see him back… but life will go on if he stays put. In any case I wish him the best, he was a hell of a Bear.

by oripunk3485 on Aug 1, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions

One hour is pretty reasonable when you have no other offers extended to you.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent - Salvor Hardin

by badsamaritan on Aug 1, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions

We need him for his presence and knowledge for whoever is taking over for him.

it would be nice to see him help groom Edwin Williams or whoever takes over

THANK YOU DENVER!!!!!!!!!

by fortefan09 on Jul 31, 2011 8:19 AM CDT reply actions

If he is gone what's plan B?

Williams is Beekman 2.0. Fans that glamor for him, have no idea how he’ll play. Garza is in his 30’s too and hasn’t played center in a long time. Kreutz’s health is supposedly better… if they bring him back and his play slips Garza would still be there to switch to.

They should bring him back, he’s the best player available to play center for the Bears.

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 31, 2011 11:03 AM CDT reply actions

I still think he's going to sign with us.

He couldn’t report until Thursday anyway so I think he’s trying to get as much money as he can out of the situation. He should be happy with $4 Mil for a season, it’s more than he’s worth to any other NFL club. I think he’ll take the deal, if he doesn’t then I think we should be looking at Kreutz as the person at fault in this situation.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jul 31, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions

Beekman was 6'2" 310lbs?!?

I would’ve guessed he was like 6’0" 290lb. I remember Tice was making fun of how small he was.

I also remember Tice saying how much he liked Lance Louis, who’s listed at 6’2" 303lbs. And Edwin is at 6’2" 308lbs. I’m so confused right now.

by YaoPau on Jul 31, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm guessing those listed weights aren't entirely accurate.

Pat Riley is the devil.

by Poloplaya14 on Jul 31, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions

What's plan B?

Any Center with 4 years of high level college experience, or an NFL veteran. Hell, I’d be fine with them bringing Beeker back up off the UFL to replace Kreutz. 4 million a year is already a loyalty premium, anything over that is absolute insanity. I

Kreutz wasn’t good last year, and isn’t going to be better this year. So either he remains average, or he gets worse. I’d rather not pay 4 million for possibly okay, no matter the history. Center isn’t a high dollar position, there are a ton of 4 year Center UDFA worth taking a look at.

To cut out the rambling: Plan B is anyone that can snap the ball, and get half of a push.

by Jacob Hayes on Jul 31, 2011 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions

He doesn't have another offer better than $4mm.

And Jerry knows it. Olin won’t retire. He’s going to try to get as much as he can from the Bears, but its not as if someone out there is offering him $5mm/year or multiple years with an equivalent signing bonus. No way. His best offer right now is from the Bears, and all the leaked stories you’re reading about how he’ll walk are coming straight from his agent to try and get that offer higher.

Angelo should offer another $150K just to get it done and let Olin save face. But he’s going to accept the best offer out there, and that will be from the Bears.

by Orval Overall on Jul 31, 2011 12:10 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Very good comment

Wreck!

by rdent4hof on Jul 31, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Turns out, he just might retire.....

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jul 31, 2011 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree.

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by David Taylor on Jul 31, 2011 12:32 PM CDT reply actions

Here we go. Here and here alone because this is a fan post and I'm tired of the drama.

In my opinion, Olin has meant as much to this offense as Mike Singletary meant to the Bears once upon a day. Just because he plays a position that isn’t sexy or garners the attention of some other positions he was still a 6 time pro bowler. He will go down as one of the best at his position for this team EVER. Think about the Bears history and then reflect upon that. He is one of the (if not THE) best center the Bears have ever had. Thanks Olin. Sorry crappy politics and poor negotiating interfered with you retiring with the team you so graciously led for the last 13 years.

Above all; keep 'em guessing, never let them lose their sense of confusion.

by Just Dave on Jul 31, 2011 11:05 PM CDT reply actions

He was good ... WAS

but those days are past. I am glad they upgraded at center

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 1, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Upgraded?

Seriously? According to most lists Spencer is only a tad bit better at run blocking and actually worse at pass blocking than Olin was last season while hampered by off-season Achilles tendon surgery.

We upgraded nothing at the center position.

In short, in life, as in a foot-ball game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard; don't foul and don't shirk, but hit the line hard!" Theodore Roosevelt

by LRT on Aug 1, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions

we shall see

Spencer has potential to be better. Kreutz? Not so much.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Aug 2, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions

I would be ok if they had upgraded. Too bad it doesn't appear they did.

Spencer has sucked so far. Both according to stats and the fans that watch him and support the ’Hawks. We “upgraded” with a guy that they are almost universally glad to see go in Seattle (at least from what I get on the Field Gulls blog and some of the other blogs).

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Aug 1, 2011 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Spencer is a band-aid

I think the Bears coaches might develop a young guy like Linnekohl (did I spell that right?) or somebody else for the future.

by Gaak on Aug 2, 2011 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions

That could be true....

I like Linnenkohl (anyone can be forgiven for mispelling his name. It’s not Manumaleuna, but still), and centers seem to be one of the most successful positions taken from UDFAs.

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Aug 2, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions

One thing the Bears lead the league in,

Last names eligible for usage in a Spelling Bee.

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by Steven Schweickert on Aug 3, 2011 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Truthiness here↑

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Aug 3, 2011 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions

Agree completely.....

in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Aug 1, 2011 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed on some points.

He was a great center for us, and a team leader. He’s definitely respected, and earned that respect on the field.

However, he’s the one who went looking for more money for his retirement season. Doing so while having no other real offers on the table mind you. Then when out of respect they offer some more money but demand he answer and get in camp, he basically asks for more money again.

That’s poor negotiating, but not on the Bears part. If a team tells you take or leave it, they are obviously willing to leave it themselves. If he wanted to play one more year for the Bears, he should have taken the ultimatum or hell, even asked for other considerations like a place in the front office or whatever. To ask for more money though? Crazy.

by Jacob Hayes on Aug 1, 2011 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions