A case for keeping Forte.
by MidwayMonster55 on Jan 23, 2012 2:44 PM CST
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I've never posted on WCG before, but felt this merited my time since I have an undying bromance for good ol' 22.
I hope to remain objective and unoffensive. Please let me know if I have failed in either so I can rectify it.
I initially found it difficult to believe keeping Forte needed justification. Then I remembered who we are. We suggest trading Lance Briggs about every other year and we want to deal Devin Hester when Briggs isn't an issue. I don't believe that you can fill holes in positions by creating new ones. This much is sound logic. You trade when depth is there, and you don't trade your starter without an equal or better replacement ready to go. This is not one of those years. With that preface I'll begin my justification for the continuance of the PAYDAMAN campaign.
The CJ_K problem.
If Chris Johnson had performed like he was supposed to this wouldn't likely be as big an issue (I also would have swept in my FFL, but I digress). I don't believe we should let Johnson's lack of production change our view of what Matt Forte can do. We should do our best to remain objective. They're not the same player and we're not the same offense.
Matt Forte's Durability
He's durable. He's taken more than his share of carries since he entered the league in '08 and this is his first injury. No surgery was required. He's already been cleared medically for the ProBowl and I'm sure he'll undergo some more scrutiny before he's signed. Running backs don't last as long--they say. All good things must come to an end. You can't make decisions based on the fact that he's eventually not going to be effective. Don't sign him for 7 years. Sign him for the amount of time he's expected to be effective for. He's only 26.
PAYDAMAN's greed.
Reports say he was offered something in the realm of 6 mil per year and 12-13 mil guaranteed. Forte says offer was no where near that. Something fishy is going on there. I'm not sure how much he's looking for. I'm sure he's looking for something similar to Chris Johnson's value--within that ball park.
Forte's Value.
This is where the infighting really starts. We're in a cap year. Peppers was expensive. Briggs is unhappy--again. Urlacher and co need to be extended. I'm not a finance guy. Da Bears have people for that. I'm a fan I'll think as such and get paid as such. They'll figure it out. They had some cap room this year and couldn't get the deal done, so they'll receive no consideration from me. I think he's worth what Chris Johnson was worth for the TItans. They had a RB, a WR, but no QB. We have a QB a RB and no WR. Values are similar, esp when that RB is also the top WR. I'm one who thinks that if you produce, you should get paid.
We'll just replace him with Kahlil Bell
LOL what? I should stop with just that, but I won't out of respect for my peers. I know off seasons can lead to some crazy talk but Bell is no Matt Forte. I don't want a Caleb Hanie experience out of this position next year. For that matter, as I've noted in a comment section before, I don't want another Cedric Benson experience. How we missed Thomas Jones.... Please don't tell me you'd like to see that again. Matt Forte is a juggernaut. He cannot be replaced with what we evaluated to be a 3rd string RB.
A note on character.
As a fan it means a great deal that he didn't throw us under the bus in a hold out. Think of what this offense would have been without him when Cutler was healthy (for that matter think of what it would have done to my FF team). He showed up to play for under a million when we can ALL agree he's certainly worth more than that to us. He played risking injury without guaranteed money and he got injured. I was very sad for him when it happened and most of us knew our season was definitively over when it did. He's healthy again. If he's not, our evaluation will deem it so. He showed character by giving us a season and we should show some by at least not throwing him under the bus now.
A note from me: I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you guys for making it through the read, but mostly for the reading material you've provided. I'm not from Chicago. I live in California and started watching football later in life than most--2005 (High School). I fell in love with good defense and Chicago was the best team to watch. I've been loyal ever since. I was rewarded early in '06 and have been hooked ever since. I appreciate the Chicagoan perspective you guys offer. I like to get a sense of what the city is feeling from afar and listen to Joniak's broadcast over the web while the games are playing.
This FanPost was written by a Windy City Gridiron member, and does not necessarily reflect the ideas or opinions of its staff or community.
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Bro, Im on board with you on this one. (hence, my nam Fortefan09)
Here I was thinking Im the only one that really thinks Forte is the most valuable player on offense besides Cutler. Forte is easily the best back weve had since Payton and we need to keep him however that is. Nice post man
Wouldnt it be funny if we had another DE with the last name Salters!
good piece im with you on forte hes definatly someone who needs to get signed. keep up the good work
glad you chose to be a bears fan great history lotta good reads if your intrested.bear down
Tony
by chitown-tony on Jan 23, 2012 6:55 PM CST via Android app reply actions
I'm just sick of hearing "PAYDAMAN" every time I turn around.
I am become less sympathic to Fortes contract problems the more he acts like a petulant child
“If they use the franchise tag I might go MIA”
the franchise tag comes with a sizable payday I am not going to lose any sleep over this.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
PAYDAMAN comes from your fellow fans,
Forte only brings it up when asked by the media. DAMN him for being honest. Maybe he should talk more like Lovie (joke). Most players that have been in the same position as he was held out. We rewarded Benson when he held out, then traded his away his competition the next year for next to nothing. Forte has lived by his word but we dont want to reward tthat. idk why. I think we should sign him and the fanchise tag, may be good pay for 1 year, is a slap in the face and sends the wrong message to the locker room and to any other player that may find themselves in a similar situation with the Bears.
by Ryan21 on Jan 24, 2012 9:07 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
this is just riduclas
you want to live in the past that is your problem.
7 million dollar slap in the face is going to poison the locker room? Are our players the emotional age of preschoolers?
the guy doesn’t deserve a blank check, and his contract needs to be negotiated between his agent and the Bears without all of the childish media drama.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
We know this Ed,
The problem is exactly what you said, Its the media thats blowing this up. Forte has actually been pretty mature about the whole thing. The fact is that all professional athletes are overpaid and always will be. That being said, you really cant blame Forte for wanting more money.
Wouldnt it be funny if we had another DE with the last name Salters!
"If they use the franchise tag I might go MIA"
he wants the media attention without seeming to want the media attention so he drops a little nugget like that every so often. If you can’t blame Forte for wanting more money, then you can’t blame the Bears for wanting their money to go as far as possible.
If Forte was being cool about it he would just let his agent do the talking and not drop these little nuggets.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Once again Ed, You are talking about professional athletes.
Please name 1 player that doesnt throw out these little nuggets you are refering to.
Wouldnt it be funny if we had another DE with the last name Salters!
Rice in Baltimore hasn't said a word about his up coming contract negotiations
I don’t recall Walter Payton ever saying anything about money publicly.
In fact lots of players don’t, what purlpose does it serve other than to stir up fans.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
The purpose is that it makes them more money
Mankins held out and got the big contract he wanted. Marcedes Lewis, same thing. Now Drew Brees is telling the media that he won’t sign a franchise tag. Is he being a petulant kid? Leon Washington didn’t raise a stink about his contract, got hurt, and probably lost about $10 million dollars.
If you can’t blame Forte for wanting more money, then you can’t blame the Bears for wanting their money to go as far as possible.
I like this logic. Forte has every right to try to make his contract more favorable to him, and the Bears have every right to use tools like the franchise tag to try to deny him of that. I don’t see why either one would be classified as “petulant kid”. Both sides, so far, have fully honored the contracts they’ve signed, and I’m not sure what else you can ask for.
how is his "I might go MIA" going to do anything other than stir up some of the fans
He needs to negociate with the Bears not with Media bozos
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
I could see a couple benefits for Forte
it makes the issue a bigger local story, putting more pressure on the team to get a deal done… and if the local media decides to write stories about this in favor of paying Forte, it gives Forte more leverage.
And the downside is: there is no downside. Forte mostly kept the peace last year and didn’t get an offer he liked. Now he’s intent on signing a longterm deal, regardless of the team it sounds like, and he’s being clear about it. Angelo talked to the media about not being willing to meet Forte at his asking price, and so I don’t see a problem with Forte saying he’s not willing to meet the Bears at theirs.
i dont see a problem with that
but if forte doesnt budge then i say put the tag on him
public opnion and six bucks will get you a cup of coffee.
far as I can see he is a greedy football player and we have more important things to worry about.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
your just stuck in the "Old School" Ed. There are new ways of doing things.
Wouldnt it be funny if we had another DE with the last name Salters!
I don't watch American Idol or call in my vote for dancing with the stars
and I don’t worry about the feeling of a “me” generation running back who is going to get a very nice pay day no matter what happens.
my advice to you ff09 is to rub some dirt on it and get back in there and play.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
I am thinking about the future.
I never said write a blank check. Players pay attention to what other players get paid. The next time we have a player out play his contract, they will look back at this and see that Chicago does not reward you for your skills. Then they will hold out. If he signs his 1 year deal and shreds his knee instead of just spraining it next time, he is done. I know that the tag pays well but could be his last pay day. He generates a good portion of our offense and should be paid accordingly. I pay good money to see this team play and would rather see it paid out to the players than have us save 20 million in salary cap so that money goes into owners pockets. Like last year. Or get him to sign his tender then trade him. I like Forte and we like to see him stay. We were way under the cap last year and now that money is gone. We could have signed him then and he would have cost much less against the cap this year. I think it sets bad a example to our players. Players play for money. Chicago dont like to pay their players what they are worth. Why would a player want to play here rather than for a team that pays its players well. If we didnt have holes at almost every position, we could afford to play hardball. We dont and if he leaves we will then be down to Jay Cutler and a bunch of players who would be out of the league if they werent on the Bears on offense. Or at the most, backups.
by Ryan21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:30 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
paying too much for anything is bad business.
Forte had a contract last year, and there is plenty of time to negoiate a new one before having to make a decision to place a franchise tag on him. Chicago’s payroll was over $100,000 million last year that is not peanuts and not bottom of the league. This whole Chicago is cheap mantra is undeserved.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
The franchise tag comes with no measure of financial security
While it may be immature to sit out to get what you want the way an infant may hold it’s breath, he’s clearly looking for long-term stability, and that’s simply something that’s missing. Asking to be treated contractually like other top RB’s is only him looking out for his future and the future of his family.
"Players with fight never lose a game, they just run out of time." John Wooden
I gotta agree with this
Forte wouldn’t be the first big name to sit out, and I wouldn’t call Vincent Jackson or Logan Mankins petulant kids. When it comes to your contract, sometimes you gotta play hardball. I don’t think anybody would disagree that Forte has been one of the NFL’s most underpaid players … if anything, he’s been really too “mature” about this.
7 million dollars is no measure of financial secuity? what universe do you live in.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
In pro sports terms its minimally secure
Can’t look at it as how we normals would look at 7 mil. For Forte, and most franchised players, its a one-year windfall versus more guaranteed money, a long term contract for more money, and an acknowledgement of his status as a top tier player.
If its free, take two.
by T.J. Shouse on Jan 24, 2012 10:34 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
so it is not about security it is about his ego.
because 7 million dollars goes as far in Matt’s bank account as it would in mine.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
I think the lifestyle and bank account
Of pro athletes may differ a bit from the rest of us. Unless you’ve recently divorced a famous pro athlete.
If its free, take two.
by T.J. Shouse on Jan 24, 2012 11:22 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
It useless arguing with Ed T.J.
Professional athletes are all overpayed and they all want more money. Therefore we need to pay Forte and keep him in Chicago. case closed
Wouldnt it be funny if we had another DE with the last name Salters!
Lol
I’m gonna get through to him! This is an intervention!
If its free, take two.
by T.J. Shouse on Jan 24, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
7 million dollars provides a lot of security for anyone.
how does playing football make someone entitled to an endless extravagant lifestyle. If someone earns 7 million dollars I feel relieved of the responsibility of worrying about their future security or how extravagant their life style is.
If he wants a CJ2K contract and can’t get it from the Bears he is not going to go home empty handed.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Its doesn't entitle one
to live such a way, but in the world of professional athletes and paychecks, specifically dealing with NFL running backs in recent years, the discussion of fair pay includes a combination of financial gain (security is a stupid word to throw around since they are millionaires) and a proclamation of their importance to their respective franchise through the agreement of millions of dollars spread out over multiple years. 7 million isn’t bad (for the player or the team) for a high value RB like Forte in the midst of his productive years, but Forte wants the acknowledgement that he is more to the franchise than just a “rent-a-player” that they want to use up and spit out (even though thats how all pro athletes technically are, if you’re feeling pragmatic) and wants a long-term deal that identifies him as an important player for this franchise that is worthy of an above-average to top-shelf contract. He doesn’t want short-term windfalls and disrespect (which are not mutually exclusive in his mind), but wants respect in terms of money and years the team will commit to him. One year at a great salary, according to Forte, is the team saying “you’re not worth keeping around beyond a year right now; prove you’re great and we’ll see about next year.”
And $7 million for one-year as a RB is good, and negates the discussion of financial security, but these guys see money and years as hand-in-hand with respect; the more dough and years you commit to a guy, the more they value you. For a weird parallel: would you rather have a one year relationship with your fantasy partner, or a decades long relationship with your true love/soul mate? Career wise: would you rather have a one-year contract above market value to do a job but not know if the company would have you return the following year, or sign a multi-year deal to work with reasonable financial increases and know that you would have a steady income for the remainder of said deal?
If its free, take two.
by T.J. Shouse on Jan 24, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
point is moot.
Forte was under contract last year and we don’t have the details of the extension they offered him.
We don’t know what his demands are, we just assume he wants AP or CJ2K money. All we know is the little we hear from the media and his little nibblets about possible going MIA etc.
I expect the Bears to do what is best for the team. I can’t imange over paying Forte by several million is in their best intrest regardless of the mistakes they have made in the past.
lastly I care about Forte’s feelings about the same as he cares about mine, which seems fair.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Dollars you make versus dollars they make isnt an arguement.
It doesnt bother me how much they make. Millions of people tune in every sunday to watch they players. The players generate billions of dollars a year. Until millions of people line up along the railroad to watch me swing a hammer, I dont care what their pay versus mine is. I care about seeing # 22 continue to put on a Bears uniform every sunday. For years to come hopefully.
by Ryan21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:39 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
exactly! Keep Forte in Chicago and pay him some more money!
Wouldnt it be funny if we had another DE with the last name Salters!
if you want him to give him chris johnson money
then theres really nothing i can do here. but ill try ppl arnt saying just toss him in the wind. bur rbs arnt worth chris johnson money. they used to be. the game changes. its easy to find rbs. the passing game is how you win games .
if its AP or CJ2k or bust and he wants to sit out. lol let him then.
The 49ers , Ravens , Steelers & a few other teams beg to differ . You can still win .....
…. with the running game you must however have a QB that can make throws at the right time .
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 24, 2012 2:32 AM CST up reply actions
and which of those running backs
are getting that kind of money?
Gore got an extension a few years ago
That was a good deal for him then but is now outdated for top tier RBs. Rice is due for a big new deal.
If its free, take two.
by T.J. Shouse on Jan 24, 2012 10:37 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
i just think
its a position you cant invest tons of cash at least long term. rb more than any other position has the highest injury risk, the shortest shelf life, and easiest to replace.
i love forte but theres no way id be happy with the bears giving him a deal like chris johnson
by TR MacReady on Jan 24, 2012 11:03 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Agree, no one deserves CJ money
but also think about the financial implications of franchising Forte for two straight years versus spreading out a guaranteed salary over 4-5 years. I’m ok with the franchise tag, but it does complicate the financial state of the Bears a bit if the tag is more than what he would otherwise cost us under the cap.
If its free, take two.
by T.J. Shouse on Jan 24, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with that.
I would think a 4 year deal would cost less against the cap than the franchise tag.
by Ryan21 on Jan 24, 2012 12:41 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Here's the whole thing
I’m not a finance guy. Da Bears have people for that. I’m a fan I’ll think as such.
That’s nice, but if you’re going to ignore the biggest reason why people are against bringing Forte back, I can understand why you came to that conclusion.
In writing that...
my intention was not to ignore the money issue. I remember making an attempt at discussing value and that you pay what the value is. I’m really not a finance guy in that I can’t provide numbers to do the math myself, nor am I interested in doing so. A general fan sentiment is echoed in my post in that I believe many of us won’t excuse them not having gotten the contract done over the span of a year with $13 million of cap space. They can’t cry poor any more than fans like ed_brown (you’re among company, I’m sure, Ed) doesn’t appreciate Forte doing so.
by MidwayMonster55 on Jan 24, 2012 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
He was already under contract for the 2011 season
and he did get an offer to extend his contract.
over paying a player just because you have room under the cap would seem a poor way to do business.
I’m not against bringing Forte back, I just don’t think you give him what ever he wants,you don’t give in to fan outcry’s of PAYDAMAN you figure out what your options are and what Forte’s services are worth to you and proceed from there.
I would like to see Forte come back, but I understand the team not wanting to over pay him. Forte is not the only thing on their plate this off season.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
who cares about cap space
yes hes a top 6 running back, no one here is saying he isnt. i think in todays nfl the rb position as a whole is over valued in terms of salary. its just way to risky. the bears are not crying poor, they are being smart.
forte has every right to make as much money as he can, and he has earned the right to get paid as such. but he doesnt have to do it here. because that cj2k contract or AP money is ridiculous.
its the easiest to replace, the highest injury rate, and shortest shelf life. lets give him a massive deal.
This
he has earned the right to get paid as such. but he doesnt have to do it here.
scares me. We have an OLine that can’t pass block and managed a way to run block. Losing our RB (and best WR) is not something I think I’d be comfortable with.
yes hes a top 6 running back, no one here is saying he isnt.
If this is indeed true and you actually evaluate him to be a top 6 RB (which I’d wholeheartedly agree with), he should be paid like the top 6th RB. For all the talk about RB shelf life, injury rates, how easy it is to find a replacement (we currently have none), the NFL is still paying RB big contracts.
Also Ed:
you figure out what your options are and what Forte’s services are worth to you and proceed from there.
I’d argue the Bears have to figure his worth merits that MONSTER contract he’s after. He’s an irreplaceable asset. I would like him to stay. If details were to be released of a contract with $20+M guaranteed being turned down then I’d cry greedy too. That hasn’t happened yet. I think he deserves an extension and not a franchise tag which would likely be more costly Cap wise anyway.
I’d be interested to read an article of what you think the Bears’ most pressing needs are this off season.
I don’t think any of them would outrank RB if Matt Forte were to disappear. Our hole at WR would become much more evident with his loss as well.
PS. I can’t express how much fun it is to talk Chicago Bears football with other fans.
by MidwayMonster55 on Jan 26, 2012 3:13 AM CST up reply actions
Hmmm,
I’m not a finance guy. Da Bears have people for that. I’m a fan I’ll think as such.
Which is why it is a very good thing you have no control over personnel decisions. The Bears need to think with their heads not with the hearts like fans can do.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
Yes but fans are what makes the NFL run. Without are money, there is no NFL.
Wouldnt it be funny if we had another DE with the last name Salters!
the NFL ran for 40 years on little or no money
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
Halas invented money.
Wait, that’s not right!
-------
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by David Taylor on Jan 25, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Reality check
fans came to Bears’ games before Forte, they will not stop coming if Forte moves on
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 26, 2012 7:39 AM CST up reply actions
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