Recap: George McCaskey/Ted Phillips Press Conference
by Steven Schweickert on Jan 3, 2012 5:02 PM CST
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PrintIn case you missed it, George McCaskey and Ted Phillips had their press conference earlier today to discuss the firing of general manager Jerry Angelo and the resignation of Mike Martz and Shane Day. Here's a quick synopsis of what they talked about... First, Ted Phillips...
- Jerry Angelo achieved a lot in his 11 seasons as GM
- The Bears need to keep pace with their division rivals, citing a "talent gap."
- Tim Ruskell is in charge of scouting operations until a new GM is hired.
- Talent evaluation will be a top priority.
- There is no timetable to hire a new GM, and there won't be a search firm like last time.
- The Angelo decision was made prior to the Polian firing.
- "Every year is a must-win year."
- Wants Forte to be a Chicago Bear long-term.
- "I don't see any candidates not wanting it [the position]."
And George McCaskey...
- Called Angelo "The epitome of class."
- Goal is to win world championships, and the fans deserve one.
- Has complete faith in Phillips and supports Smith as head coach.
- Money had no bearing on the decision to remove Angelo or hire a new GM.
- "The goal is 2012 and it's not just the Packers."
- Likes the structure of the organization, but wants the right people in the job.
- There will be a decision before free agency starts.
What do you think Bears fans? Like what you heard?
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Whoever the nrxt GM is, don't handcuff him by requiring he keep Lovie.
If you want to get the best GM available for the team, let them bring their own people in, not work with someone else’s mess.
Lovie is our HC for 2012..
After that, nobody knows..
"I've been big ever since I was little." - William "The Refrigerator" Perry
Claudio "Coscobeu"
Illustration & Design
http://jucos.daportfolio.com
by Claudio Oliveira on Jan 3, 2012 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Dennis Green found a lot of good players for Arizona so
he could be a good GM. I think Chicago is a great destination for any of the marquee coaches like Cowher or Gruden. Perhaps Ditka can be GM and then hire Riviera for HC.
They're keeping Lovie because it's not a complete rebuilding situation
The Bears are only one year removed from winning the North and hosting the NFCCG. If they have have the GM bring in a new coach, then it’s a signal to every player that everyone’s ass is on the hot seat, Cutler and Urlacher included. Furthermore, a GM typically gets 2 head coaching hires (give or take), so while it seems counter-intuitive, this could actually increase the stability and longevity of whoever they hire.
Lovie will be on the hot seat in 2012 with the new GM. That’s a good thing. And any GM worth his salt shouldn’t be concerned about inheriting Lovie for one year.
Meanwhile, for all the talk about Bill Cowher and Tony Dungy (in various capacities), they didn’t win the Super Bowl until their 14th and 11th seasons, respectively, as head coaches. Next year will be Lovie’s 9th season.
It makes perfect sense to keep Lovie for 2012 – at least as much sense as it does to fire him.
by Sweetness Lives On on Jan 3, 2012 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
Well whomever is the new GM, must be aggressive in FA
This “talent gap” is a real problem right now.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
Saw a couple days ago that there was something like $300M left on the table
this year in the NFL. Just because a team has cap room doesn’t mean the owner’s are willing to spend it all.
I'm a ninja.
Teams are allotted the salary floor, which I believe was implemented starting this season.
But collectively, the entire league has to spend either 98 or 99% of the total fund, which I think is right around $4 billion.
I'm a ninja.
Ah, you made me google it,
but the floor of only 90% of the cap won’t take effect until 2013.
Until then, there’s no minimum a team has to spend, but league-wide it has to be 99%, less the difference be paid out to the players.
I'm a ninja.
Thats it..
I Just tought the decision were made by George, not Ted, but I´m Ok with it..
"I've been big ever since I was little." - William "The Refrigerator" Perry
Claudio "Coscobeu"
Illustration & Design
http://jucos.daportfolio.com
by Claudio Oliveira on Jan 3, 2012 5:10 PM CST reply actions
I'm not sure how to take to George McCaskey basically back off during the press conference
He seems like he wants 2012 to be a “Super Bowl or Bust” type year, but I’m thinking he is being a bit too cautious. Still puzzled as to how you can expect any legit GM to be cool with a virtual handcuff in Lovie Smith. Guess we shall see what happens in the near future…
Oh, and I pray to Ditka that the search for a new OC doesn’t take the whole damn offseason like it did in 2010!
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 5:13 PM CST reply actions
Seems to me the new GM won't be blamed if there is no Super Bowl next year
But rather Lovie is going for the long drop. That actually makes a lot of sense since there doesn’t seem to be any amazing HC candidates on the near horizon that want to move towards a HC gig.
By which I mean Dungy or Cowher for the known names. There seems to be a dearth of coordinators, but I haven’t heard any particular names mentioned. I’m interested to see how Boise St. HC does after Kellen Moore moves onwards towards the NFL. If he has another successful year, then I would love to have a long hard look at him AND his talent evaluators.
Cacti are prickly.
by crackedcactus on Jan 3, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
So you see it as nothing at all?
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Dungy?
Hahahaha, god I hope that never happens. Dungy was NOT a good HC. He had Peyton Manning. End of story. Is Jim Caldwell a good HC? Because I’ve seen nothing that would indicate that he is. In fact I’ve seen little to indicate he’s an actual living breathing human being. But when you’ve got Peyton Manning you look pretty good in the Win column.
Directors inherit managers all the time
Still puzzled as to how you can expect any legit GM to be cool with a virtual handcuff in Lovie Smith.
How would you expect Urlacher and Briggs and Cutler and Forte and Tillman, et al, to be cool with firing Lovie? That’s the flip side of the coin.
Lovie will be on the hot seat next year, fo shizzle. But why scuttle the ship and ask the new GM to hire a new HC when we have a team that won the division last year and was 7-3 this year before lightning struck?
by Sweetness Lives On on Jan 3, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They do?
I always was under the impression GMs prefere their own guy to be the HC, not someone they are stuck with. Now, the players backing Lovie is another thing. Hopefully, it won’t hinder the process.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
I was speaking of life in general, not necessarily the NFL
GMs do prefer to hire their own HCs – but what kind of timeline would that be?
We may not get a GM until February, and he has to re-build the front office (scouting, drafting, personnel) AND hire a HC, then wait as the HC assembles a completely new staff? We’d at least have to wait for the coach and staff, likely being from playoff teams. For a team that went 19-9 for the season and a half before losing half its offense to injuries?
by Sweetness Lives On on Jan 3, 2012 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good point
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
Go back & look at articles when Jauron was being let go
Urlacher was upset about that. You can’t worry about what the players think in these situations. The inmates can’t run the asylum
by BearFan611 on Jan 3, 2012 7:59 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
well
the players played like sh*t under jauron so they can say whatever they want. under lovie they are ready to play
Ready to play well enough to miss the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years?
These guys are professionals and will play their hardest for whomever the HC is. To imply they wouldn’t is ridiculous.
Yes, I do. Their willingness to play shouldn't be confused with the coaching staff
preparing them or having good game plans installed. I would be willing to bet if you asked any player in the NFL they would tell you the same thing.
I’m not saying they don’t “enjoy” playing for certain coaches more than others but it’s no different than any of us having to do our respective jobs. You have a job to do and you do it. You don’t get to pick your coach or your boss.
I would have agreed if this was old era football, but cases like Mike Singletary hurt that.
I honestly believe players will pack it in to get some coaches fired. If players want change, they can make it happen. It happens in baseball and basketball all the time. Football is no different.
I agree that players don't like coaches like Singletary and I'm sure tried to get things changed
but no organization would put up with players purposely packing it in.
Tell that to this year's Colts.
"You have a young group and if they start feeling too good about themselves, that’s not a good thing. So it’s my job not to let them. So probably they will hate me. But that’s OK too. My wife hates me and she’s still married to me." - Mike Tice
Do you think the players didn't play hard for the Colts or do you think they just weren't prepared by their coaches
to deal with the loss of Peyton Manning? There’s a big difference between the two things.
for you to say
that players will play their hardest no matter what, is laughable
What I said was players play hard for the HC no matter who it is.
If you think any player or group of players would tank it because of their coach for a season or part of a season to get the coach fired, you’re the one who’s naive. They don’t have that kind of power and would be found out by other players and coaches and get cut with that reputation around the league.
The players who have that kind of clout (Urlacher, Cutler, Briggs) would never compromise their repuations and would go about trying to get things changed in other ways.
Ready to play?
Maybe. Every other game. Because there’s plenty of recorded evidence of Lovie’s team being completely unprepared for gameday.
If the current Bears were 'inmates', then you might have a point
But to suggest that a group of professionals like Urlacher, Briggs, Peppers, Tillman, etc, who obviously really like Lovie, shouldn’t have any effect or input in this situation is a little off.
What Urlacher said about Jauron is neither here nor there. I’d wager my salary against yours that he prefers Lovie to Dickie. Sure, he stuck up for his coach in public. But what kind of reputation will the Bears have among free agents this offseason, when they’re still pretty close to having a shot, if they blow everything up now?
by Sweetness Lives On on Jan 4, 2012 1:40 AM CST up reply actions
Tim Ruskell
In charge of anything besides a waste bucket let alone scouting is worrying in the lead up to the draft.
Hiring one of them new fangled statisticians to try and add a quantifiable metric to the draft process.
Cacti are prickly.
Bah.
Is an excellent idea.
Somehow the last part went missing into the either of wireless space.
Cacti are prickly.
by crackedcactus on Jan 3, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
....Oh dear God no
If Ruskell takes over, then this canary is saying “ABANDON THE MINES!”
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
What are you, Tweety Bird? You’re meant to fall down dead!
When I assume, I'm not "making an ass out of u and me"... I'm actually putting u between me and an ass.
The cartoon adaptation of the miner's canary.
“Hey kids! When there’s dangerous gas in here, I— (croak)”
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by Steven Schweickert on Jan 4, 2012 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
You have to keep Lovie.....for now
Bringing in a new coach now would be a bad move. A new coach is just going to axe all the staff and bring in his own people. This team is built to win now and it will be a challenge as it is with a new OC being put into place. I think Cutler would benefit from a smaller playbook and better playcalling…..not to mention the ability to audible at the line.
it really hurt the 49ers this season
by BearFan611 on Jan 3, 2012 8:00 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
troll?
are you serious? i think singletary’s shtick up screaming non stop got pretty old and players were fine in seeing him go. get a clue
Troll? Get a clue?
Who do you think you are to say that? If you don’t agree fine but from the little I’ve read of what you’ve written, I consider it a compliment that you have a different opinion. Grow up and go back to the sites where that kind of thing is considered cool.
fine
i shouldnt have called you a troll… jesus thin skin
i was gonna write more but i already read that you dont think players ever pack it in or put forth anything less than 100%
So do we spend this offseason going for broke with FA and drafting
for instance trading our entire 2012 draft class for the Rams number 2 pick and geting a guy like Justin Blackmon and then a FA olineman or 2 and try to make a run with this defense or do we look long term and see how much value a new GM can squeeze from having a complete draft class to work with but might not pan out for a few seasons?
Which is it guys???
White Sox fans need not apply.
by Bears-Cubs Bulls on Jan 3, 2012 5:39 PM CST reply actions
Well, A: we have to spend this year or it will result in fines, so we have to go all out in FA to fill the cap.
B:The draft is no longer an option in filling the cap due to the rookie contract structure.
We can fulfill both philosophies by going for the big names in the market and using a complete draft to get guys we can develop over a few years.
Go for broke in FA, draft for the long term like a winning team
Getting Cutler, Forte, Williams, Carimi, Conte, etc back from injury, presumably, will help considerably.
Find the best FAs for the weakest units, and spend some of that money left on the table. Then draft like Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, Baltimore, etc.
by Sweetness Lives On on Jan 3, 2012 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
We have too great a plethora of needs across the board
to give up our entire draft for Blackman. We need to really go after a proven veteran WR in FA (like VJAX) and then draft the best players available fill our needs at LT, CB, LB, DE and possibly FS and developmental QB.
Use the draft to build depth
And blow up the scene in FA. Land big time players in the WR and CB positions. Oh, and find a solid vet OT while they’re at it.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
Ummm thats kinda the Skins model & thats not a great looking model .....
" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson
by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 3, 2012 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Except I'm talking about this approach as in a first year type for a new GM
The ’Skins do that every year for overrated players. Bring in big time players that are worth it, and then produce a solid draft. The ’Skins, btw, are a good QB and WR away from being a good team.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
the skins model
revolves around making the biggest-name splash in free agency. They sign one guy to a mega-deal. then they have no money left to fill in other holes through FA.
skins model is to find superstars through FA. much different than what we’d be doing.
Idk why alot of people are insistent on Lovie getting the axe too
I keep hearing his inability to develop talent….Im not completely buying that. A coach can do everything in their power to help a player reach that potential but if they dont have it they jus dont have it. from 1st round busts to 7th round stars.
See me on Twitter follow me @ EddieCheeze, Catch me on FB friend me Eddie Cheeze, See my group on youtube listen to us Hood Platinum, want me ta kill a track email me Cheeze2k11@gmail.com....Im errwhere
by EmmCeee on Jan 3, 2012 6:01 PM CST via Android app reply actions
? Is this sarcasm?
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 6:11 PM CST up reply actions
what is devving?
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
No, it is true. The Colts, in 11 years have developed Reggie Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, Bethea, Clark and Garcon.
The Patriots have had Green-Ellis, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Mayo, Wilfork, Warren, Seymour and most of their current O-line.
We’ve had Urlacher, Briggs, Hester, Forte, Tommie Harris, Melton, Tillman, Mike Brown, Tony Parrish, Alex Brown, Kyle Orton, Jerry Azumah and Marty Booker. (Arguably D. Manning, Vasher and Chris Harris)
Patriots were probably an exaggeration, but certainly not the Colts or several other teams.
Did you really
just toss out that list like those are the only players the Colts or Patriots have gotten great success out of in the last 11 years?
If D. Manning and K. Orton is your standard of development, you could take the entire top to bottom 22 man starting team of the Patriots from 2003-2008 and list them.
The Patriots had Matt Light, Deion Branch, Asante Samuel, Ty Warren, Ellis Hobbs, Logan Mankins, and many more in that time period…All of whom performed at least as well, if not far better, than Kyle Orton, etc. at their respective positions. Heck they even flipped Cassel in that time period…And won 3 of their 4 Super Bowl appearances on that roster. Their player development is top 5 in the league over the last 11 years.
Not that the Colts had Tamme or Bob Sanders in there as well…but looking back at the Colts I don’t see nearly the level of talent I expected, so you may be on to something there and it might drag me away from the Polian thoughts…
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Lets see
The Colts have had I believe at least 12 Pro Bowlers on the roster for a good number of years under Tony Dungy. And with that team, they had set a record of recording I think 7-9 straight seasons where they had at least 12 wins or more, winning their division far more often than not. And again, Bill Polian doesn’t just draft great players, he builds Super Bowl contenders.
Everywhere he’s gone, each team (Bills, Panthers, Colts) have at the very least been in the conferance game, and has 6 Super Bowl appearances with 2 different teams (4 straight with the Bills, and 2 with the Colts). Under Bill Polian, his teams all had one thing in common, they win. And they win often barring any injuries. Can you name anyone else that has had the ability to produce 6 Super Bowls with 2 seperate teams?
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
I said the last 11 years (Angelo's era) and they must be drafteded by the team. I could have also listed FA acquisitions and it would still be the same story.
I also defy you to say that Peyton Manning was NOT the catalyst of that run, which really points to Polian’s lack of success in the draft the last decade.
Bill Belichek has gone to more Super Bowls than any modern day coach alive, but he is hardly considered the best all-time. Polian rode the coattails of a handful of Hall of Famers winning 1 Super Bowl in 6 tries proves that he doesn’t have the chops to create a championship TEAM.
Bill Polian was the one to select Peyton Manning, first of all
And secondly, Peyton Manning succeeded because Bill Polian knew how to put him into a successful situation. Other names include Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James, Pierre Garcon, Dallas Clark, and those are just some of the skill players on offense. He surrounded Peyton Manning with talent. Peyton Manning then took advantage of said talent.
You don’t just stick a great QB on a team and expect the talent come out. That was perhaps Jerry Angelo’s biggest failure as a GM. Bill Polian made sure to SURROND Peyton Manning with talent. He didn’t ride the coattails of HOFs, he DRAFTED HOFs. And, to get to the Super Bowl 6 times has never been done before by any GM. Never. People want to bring him down because of just 1 ring, but I hardly see that as the case. Winning the Super Bowl is by far the hardest game to win in the NFL. And, to just get to a Super Bowl 6 times is outstanding, to say the least.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 7:48 PM CST up reply actions
Peyton Manning like I said was a no-brainer (like the Bulls with Derrick Rose)
Marvin Harrison was on the team prior to his tenure. Edge was a severe downgrade to Marshall Faulk, Pierre Garcon has hands of steel, Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne were the only surefire finds that he had.
Peyton Manning merely had Marvin Harrison to throw to for the first 4 years, I hardly call that surrounding him with talent. He has drafted ONE Hall of Famer in his Colts tenure. Wayne, Edge and Dallas Clark do not make the cut yet and he did not draft Harrison. May I also remind you that he neither drafted Kelly, nor Smith.
Huh?
I’d hardly say Garcon has hands of steel. And how is Edge a “severe” downgrade to Marshall Faulk, who happens to be a member of the HOF. It would be like suggesting Neal Anderson was a severe downgrade to Walter Payton at RB.
And, it is true that he didn’t draft Kelly or Smith, but I don’t think either of them went to the Super Bowl before Polian took over, either. He took the team and supplemented each team with talent. May I also remind you the Indianapolis Colts never went to the Super Bowl after they moved out of Baltimore before Polian took over?
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
Talent
Is all i want from a GM, coaches need to get to and win Super Bowls. Polian had decent teams, and no Peyton can’t do it by himself… I think my real point looking back was NE had/has one of the best talent farms I’ve ever seen.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
They certainly did
And you bring up an excellent point about the job of winning the Super Bowl is on the HC, not the GM. And he was good enough at his job to provide 3 different HCs 6 opportunities to win a Superbowl on two seperate teams. He provides the talent, the coach teaches and develops the talent.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 8:29 PM CST up reply actions
they had some holes for sure
but to dismiss Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders, Antoine Bethea, and Gary Brackett as a stunning lack of talent during Polian’s tenure in Indy is silly…
Not to mention the DBs they cut are good enough to start for us – Tim Jennings does, and Kelvin Hayden was much clamored for in the off-season. Not the best D ever by any means, but certainly not talentless.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
The first two were one-dimensional (good but not "Great")
Bob Sanders was a one hit wonder that became injury prone. His claim to fame was making an ATROCIOUS ‘06 Colts Defense good enough to win the Super Bowl with a Top 5 Colts Offense. Bethea I will grant you and I suppose Gary Brackett (although he hasn’t been awesome).
Is Jennings starting for this team now, or in the future? Hayden is not starting for the Falcons and fans clamoring for an average does not prove much of anything other than a defensive concern.
Yes
Is Jennings starting for this team now, or in the future?
As of week 17 and this season, yes he was. Now as a free agent? technically not.
Bob Sanders was a one hit wonder like Mike Brown was a one hit wonder. They were two of the greatest safeties of their time until they got hurt…The only difference concerning the GMs is Polian actually drafted his stud Safety, he didn’t inherit him…
So really, fine, pick on Hayden, but Mathis, Bracket, Freeney, Bethea and Sanders make up a darn good core when they were healthy…
By the way, Freeney and Mathis make 2 more starting DEs who can put up 10 sacks than Angelo has drafted.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Mike Brown actually had some time as a healthy player. 00-03 he never missed a game and played 15 games in 05. Sanders never played a full season and had only two years of 10 plus games. Very different.
Sacks are overrated and they make no tackles which contributes to the weak run D. They have the most inflated contracts and value for anyone at that DE position.
Garcon was tops in drops two years ago and was 8th in targets yet was no where near the top in any category.
Edge was a severe downgrade (doesn’t matter that the predecessor is a Hall member, he was a downgrade) and it is an indictment against Polian that he traded the second best player for the Colts in the last twenty five years.
Kelly and Smith weren’t in the league until Polian was GM, not necessarily an endorsement to Polian.
Garcon...
is a good receiver, and better than any receiver on our team at the moment… and he was their 3rd and 4th option previously.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
He was their second option
And I thought he lead the team in at least 1 catagory during either the 2009 season or 2010 season.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
Garcon
Has had some drops…But he has also had 950 yards and 6 TDs with backup QBs…and has had a catch in every game this season…and is better than any receiver on our roster right now….and post-Polian, he will be their #1 receiver, and we will see where that leaves the Colts in 2012 after Wayne walks away.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
That is all? That is all they got out of the EIGTH MOST TARGETED player in the league?
That will leave them with Collie, Dallas Clark and the vaunted Jacob Tamme.
All of whom
are better than the talent on our roster, as far as pass catchers go…and that counts losing 2 all-pro receivers to retirement and free agency. 2…We haven’t had a receiver Angelo drafted appear in the Pro-Bowl for their pass catching skills…Well…Ever.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Yes he did
But he didn’t get drafted as, or start as their #2 option…That was my point, they had depth and talent. He was drafted and put behind Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, at that time Anthony Gonzalez and if you look at pass catchers, Dallas Clark. He was the 5th receiving option, then passed Gonzalez to be 4th, then in 2009 he had earnest competition from Austin Collie before becoming the 2nd option (really 3rd if you look at Dallas Clark)… Garcon is better as a receiver than Knox, Hester, Hurd, Williams, and outside of hands, Bennett…. Yet he was their 4th, and then 3rd, and then 2nd passing option in Indy. They had options because of drafting :)
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Colts fans
would tell you that Manning is 100% responsible for Garcon’s production. The guy can barely catch.
wouldn't say manning was a no-brainer
there were a lot of people clamoring for leaf with the first pick. manning was looked on as more polished, but leaf had more potential.
colts got lucky. manning’s been keeping the colts afloat for the past 10 years.
also, the bulls drafting rose was also looked on with controversy. Pundits and fans were pretty split on rose versus beasley. Thank god they didn’t pick the bust.
Deion Branch has hardly been awesome apart from that Super Bowl performance.
You will also notice that I included the Patriots oline and Warren…
You are seriously including Hobbs on that list? Kyle Orton has had a better record of success than Cassel and their best seasons compare favorably. Also, Cassel had Randall Moss and Wes Welker to throw to….and has hardly lit the league ablaze since New England.
Branch...
Had an awesome Super Bowl performance. Now line that up against any receiver we fielded that Angelo drafted. His stats do more than “compare favorably” they exceed anyone Angelo has put on our team in 11 years..and he was a cast off, who was better at his job than Manning was at his.
To jab at Hobbs when listing Tommie Harris, and “arguably Nathan Vasher and Daniel Manning” is a joke.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Ellis Hobbs was never an All-Pro that I was aware of (Unlike Vasher and Harris).
I said arguably Manning (that means it is arguable for or against him) and Manning has had a longer track record as an outstanding returner and DB (Granted Hobbs career was cut short, but true.)
Arguably
does NOT mean “arguable against him” in any sense…It means borderline, close to or is on your list…It means a guy who was never good enough to lock up a position, that has never had a great season, is somehow close to being a great draft pick…
Manning has had a longer track record as an outstanding returner and DB (
Calling Manning’s track record as a DB “outstanding” is more inflated than the floats from the Macy’s parade :)
That is what “and” means you know. Had you just said “returner” you might have been close to something, although everyone averages 25+ YPR on the Bears.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
What does borderline mean? Either way.
Was an inability to lock up a spot or his versatility? Does someone like Brad Smith or Dexter McCluster have an inability to lock up a spot or are they versatile?
I was calling his decent secondary play mixed with his great return ability as outstanding, I wasn’t singling out his covering ability. Of which Manning and Hobbs are comparable.
Knox and Hester don’t average 25 a game. You could call Hester’s 30+ last year an aberration.
Inability.
He didn’t get burned for Touchdowns constantly and then get moved to Nickel because of “versatility”. He didn’t help cost us a playoff berth with non-coverage in 2008 with “versatility”. Versatile is to Daniel Manning what excuses are to Jerry Angelo.
Manning has never had the coverage ability of Hobbs, and no I don’t think Hobbs is an All-Pro, but he was better than Manning, equal to Vasher, and better than Jennings, who we started because our draft picks, including Manning, could never actually play well enough to hold onto a starting job.
Saying
Manning has had a longer track record as an outstanding returner and DB
Is still funny. Try it with Hester now…Devin Hester has had a longer track record as an outstanding returner and DB than Ellis Hobbs.
True in one sense, dramatically wrong in another, but intentionally vague and inclusive of skills that weren’t there.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
The Bears didn't trade Ricky Manning Jr, our best nickelback last decade because they didn't believe in Manning...
Right, because Hobbs was lighting the world on fire as a corner. He as valued as a returner.
Jennings was signed because Vasher was cut and Manning was the nickelback and a reserve safety (he played two different positions and he isn’t versatile….) Jennings was also not supposed to be the starter, Bowman was. Jennings was behind Manning on the DC.
“Did I say outstanding returner and outstanding db?” No, I put the word before the position it applied to. Nice try.
They believed
and were dead wrong. They believed in Rex Grossman too. And Cedric Benson. And Mark Bradley.
I don’t want their BELIEF I want success.
Yeah, Bowman was…except…He isn’t good. Kinda like Vasher, hence getting cut… aka, just what I said…Jennings was better than the players WE were drafting, hence we signed him and started him, because none of the dozen of Corners we have drafted was able to do it.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
He wasn't better...
He just covered the better receivers, stayed on the field on more downs, and didn’t get let go..Makes sense, I’m sold.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Oh right, because I didn't say they made Manning the NICKELback not the 3rd CORNERBACK
Also, I forgot that Jennings wasn’t let go because he was out of our price range because he performed oh so well. I also forgot he was replaced by the inept Bowman at the end of the year….
The inept Bowman
that we studly drafted, right? Oh, wait, Jennings got his gig back in week 17.
Nickelback – not in during 3 linebacker sets (aka, not an every down player); when the Nickel comes in, covers the 3rd, 4th, or 5th receiving options (slot receiver, tight end); #2 corner (Jennings) covers the #2 receiver… Nickelbacks really are 3rd corners, but a little better in run support. Will it make you feel better if I say Manning was the gosh darn best Nickelback that couldn’t keep his job as a nickelback in Bears recent history?
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
How does that hurt Manning again? You keep going on like Bowman is Manning...they are two different guys.
Nickelback-Doesn’t equal 3rd corner or someone who is inferior to the two starters, just that he is better against smaller, quicker players… You obviously also have no grasp on modern day NFL either. The #2 corner doesn’t always cover the #2 receiver.
That is like saying the slot receiver is the #3 receiver everytime. Is Wes Welker or Bennett the third best receiver on their team? NO.
Hobbs was a terrible corner.
His one skill was looking back at the ball while deliberately running into the receiver (and that only worked in Gilette Field).
Urlacher, Brown,Parrish were not part of Angelo drafts
Where the white women at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M
by parkernutws05 on Jan 3, 2012 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
Nor was Jerry Azumah IIRC
And Kreutz certainly wasn’t one himself.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
We were talking drafts and GMs
not coaching and player development. Angelo gets no Urlacher, Brown, Parrish, Kreutz, Booker, etc. credit.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
lol
You can’t stop till you win, right?
You started this whole conversation based on the players that the Colts and Patriots drafted (with NONE of their Free Agents, traded for players or draft picks from prior to Angelo’s tenure listed or counted) yet when I put the same rule on Angelo, you get all “well its every player or nothing”…
So Angelo gets credit for a bunch of guys who played for the Bears before he got to Chicago, but the Colts and Patriots staffs don’t.
Pick your poison. The Colts and Patriots have been BETTER, hands down, than the Bears for the last 11 years. So have the Steelers, Ravens, Packers, Eagles…
If you want to include free agents, pre-existing draft picks, and traded for players, then do so, and frame the conversation that way.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
I said from Angelo's tenure and that excludes players not originally drafted or developed by other teams (Ogunleye, Ruben Brown, Thomas Jones, Joh Tait, etc.)
Colts have not been better even if you exclude Urlacher, Brown, Parrish and Kreutz. Which I will do to accommodate you.
I was scoffing at the fact that you don’t take coaching acquisitions or player development under a GM’s tenure into account….that player wouldn’t have become that player without the GM’s choices. Oh wait, Brian Urlacher was DPOY prior to Angelo….Mike Brown was a Pro Bowler too.
The Steelers, Packers and Patriots had better, but the Ravens and Eagles certainly have not.
GMs don't develop players
Period, unless you have a GM/HC single hat entity.
The Colts have been hands down better. 9 playoff berths in those 11 years says so. Unless, playoffs, Super Bowl appearances and wins, Pro-Bowls, Hall of Fame candidacy, statistics, and any measurable not named “I will defend Angelo out of stubborn pride” doesn’t count… Including better players, you know, the guys that won those games…You know, 10 or more of them,…Every year….for 9 years. Their defense, that you cite as so putrid, is the same one that kicked our butts in the Super Bowl…Their Running Game and Defense won that game, and they gave Manning a Super Bowl MVP for having a very sub-par day for him just because he is him. Grossman shoulda been their MVP.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
They hire the guys that develop them, so the development is also attributed to them. Otherwise, how do you rate a GM?
As you said, their offense kicked our butts in the Super Bowl. Reggie Wayne, Addai and Rhodes. NOT the defense.
Well then...
I submit Angelo is one of the worst GMs in the NFL, because Offense counts too, and our “development” of offensive talent is purely offensive.
Not their defense returning a pick 6 to cap the game right? Or forcing the Benson fumble? None of that. Just Wayne, Addai, and Rhodes, out there scoring defensive touchdowns to seal a Super Bowl win.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Booker, Thomas came into his own here (doesn't count but still) Bernard Berrian, Matt Forte and Kyle Orton was quite offensive....
The game was capped by the running game. I mean the Colts couldn’t run the clock out, or score their first twenty points (which gave them a lead) and forced us to throw was not responsible for the win.
Angelo
came in during 2001. He inherited draft and real GM powers in 2002 (kinda). He assumed more of them in 2004 when he finally got rid of Jauron who had more control than a coach needs. Booker’s last good season in a Bears uniform was 2002. Jerry Angelo developed our one pro-bowl receiver in the last 20 years right out of town in 2003. You are making my argument.
The Super Bowl requires watching again, by you. We were offensively terrible in that game…either that, or they played defense. We had 11 first downs…150 passing yards…IF we were playing from behind, we should have moved the ball…unless they played defense?
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
yes
we were…Terrible…So we shipped out the best receiver we had ever had, and never saw one again.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
We scored 17 points
and Hester was 7 of them. Our Offense generated 10 points, but their defense was putrid.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
"Fluke"
again. Anytime Sanders plays well its a fluke? He was a repeat pro-bowl Safety before injuries took over. Some fluke, for 1 game…Just like Branch had that 1 good game…which is why he has over 500 career receptions, which would place him where on the Bears all time list? Oh, yeah…1st.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
He wasn't just a Pro Bowl safety
He was the DPOY at one point. Its only when injuries piled up on him did his tenure end.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
In an eight year career he has had two decent years spaced apart....not much more flukey than that.
Just like Branch being a #1 receiver, oh wait, he failed at that in NE and SEA….
Ravens and Eagles?
Who have constantly made the playoffs and won their divisions more than we have? The Eagles had 8 of those 11 seasons as playoff berths, 6 of them as division championships… The Ravens only got 7 playoff seasons out of that while posting a top 5 defense almost every single year.
Not that either of them have had any success at drafting or fielding football teams of course.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
The Eagles made their team on FA acquisitions....Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Asante Samuel, Michael Vick, Jeremiah Trotter.
Brian Westbrook, McCoy, Jackson and Maclin hardly match what we have done.
Ray Lewis doesn’t count, but Ed Reed, that DT, Terrell Suggs, Flacco and Ray Rice match our total output?
Yes.
Flacco alone does. They drafted a QB, and he played well. Its amazing. I’ve never seen it before, not in the Illinois area anyway.
Pick a measurement, and stick with it. Just drafting? Angelo is horrible. Want proof? We have 2 1st round picks on our roster from the last 11 years, both on IR, one who the fan base was ready to lynch and cut at the beginning of the season who MAY turn out to be a good guard.
Hester, Briggs, Forte and Tillman…and MAYBE Alex Brown (The only real pro-bowl/All-Pro/consistently above average at their job talent Angelo has DRAFTED)…
11 years, 4-5 players. Do the math. Build me a roster on that.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
The funny thing is that he has been acknowledged as a poor performer since his rookie year. He has taken steps back and is no longer considered elite. (Cutler is rated well higher.)
He didn’t draft Tommie Harris who was an All-Pro for three straight years?
You know, he didn’t draft Chris Harris either, the forced fumble machine.
Benson was terrible, but the guy had talent, proven in Cincy.
Benson...
had massive entitlement and character issues, and we handed him big money until he drank and cried and fought his way out of town. Great player assessment and development again. Harris was so good, and I do like him, that we could afford to trade him…and then trade back for him again…so we could cut him…
Should Angelo get credit for Harris multiple times, since it took so long to decide if we liked him or not?
You picked on Bob Sanders for having a career derailed by injuries, but I have to account for “talking to myself in the third person” injury case Tommie?
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Still doesn't negate that he was good enough to produce in the NFL. Character issues doesn't mean assessment issues.
Harris was good enough to lead the league in FFs…
Bob Sanders constantly had injuries, Tommie completed more full seasons (more in a row as well) than Sanders. Sanders never had a track record.
Bob Sanders
Defensive Player of the Year.
My point is very valid; Sanders, a DPOY, was drafted by the Colts. He was also good.
Tommie Harris, who had knee issues in COLLEGE, was drafted by our injury loving GM, and gave us 3 years before he completely collapsed in on himself.
My point stands very well. If Harris counts at all, then Sanders does too…
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
96 tackles, 3.5 sacks and 2 INTs is one of the weakest DPOY seasons I have seen in recent memory.
That is like Andy Dalton winning ROY when Newton should. Or Vince Young winning ROY when Hester should have.
Like I said, he had THREE CONSECUTIVE seasons of All-Pro play and Sanders had one (arguable season). Harris had a torn hammy, not knee which ended his career.
Harris had a longer career of great football and had one serious injury to Sander’s nicks and bruises that prevent any form of consistency.
Marcus Allen is a HOF and Bo Jackson isn’t, you know why? One had more consistent years of success.
then i must have miss read it
u put “The Eagles made their team on FA acquisitions….Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse, Asante Samuel, Michael Vick, Jeremiah Trotter.
Brian Westbrook, McCoy, Jackson and Maclin hardly match what we have done.” i thought u meant they got them fa. sorry if i missunderstood
or Booker.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Hey Shuggs....are you a woman?
Because reading your posts reminds me of arguing with my girfriend. Everytime you’re beaten you change the subject or the rules and constantly move in circles. There’s more to “player development” than you make it out to be. We’ve NEVER developed an adequate WR under Angelo/Smith…or we would have developed Hester into an ALL PRO because they certainly spent the time and money on it. How many QB’s have we attempted to “develop”? Not to mention, some players come into the league developed already…do they count? Your bias is astounding. Vasher isn’t better than Hayden. Chris Harris is NOT better than BobSanders. No receiver on our team is better than Garcon or Collie. None of our TE’s are as good as Gronkowski or Dallas Clark or Hernandez. The list goes on. Player development under Angelo/Smith has been HORRIBLE. If the player didn’t have ability when they came to the Bears then there was a good chance they weren’t ever gonna get any better.
"The Bears have been better at devving talent than the Patriots and Colts, among many others"
Aaaaaaaaahahahahahahaa……right
Let's not make it more difficult than it is
The Chicago Bears ownership and management had to make some decisions as to how to move forward. The decisions they made seem all correct to me. Lovie is a good coach and respected by his players so they keep him. Martz and Lovie didn’t agree about how to run the offense so good bye Martz and his QB coach. Angelo failed at his job so see ya Angelo. Get a new GM that can work with Lovie. Shouldn’t be that hard. We have cap room to get needed free agents, fantastic. All in all great day to be a Bears fan and great moves by the powers to be.
by e-rabs on Jan 3, 2012 6:43 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Do you work for the McCaskeys?
If not, you should talk to them. You’d make a better P.R. guy than Larry Meyer.
Urlacher, Brown,Parrish were not part of Angelo drafts
Where the white women at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M
REPLY FAIL
Where the white women at?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M
by parkernutws05 on Jan 3, 2012 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
It was evident from Ted Phillips' words
Jerry’s ultimate failure was his inability to evaluate talent and draft well.
“We want to close that talent gap with our division rivals”
Phillips also mentioned the importance of the early rounds in this upcoming draft. (Can’t find the exact quote…) When you put that together with his confidence in keeping Lovie, it’s obvious that him and McCaskey realized that Jerry has simply been unable at providing substantial talent for a more than competent head coach.
Also, regarding all the Tim Ruskell conspiracies, he’s only the interim GM, and so far there is nothing that points towards him being a legitimate long term candidate.
"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
Ruskell will not be the long term GM unless no one shows any interest in the job
Honestly, they’re doing the right thing. Have someone who has at least had experiance with being a GM to oversee opperations and set the stage for the next GM.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
My Over-Simplified View
I’ll go out on a limb here- the 2011 Bears really weren’t as bad as they’re being made out to be. Now, that’s not to say they were Super Bowl caliber, but really, they were just two plays away from a 10-6 season and being in the playoffs instead of Atlanta. If Marion Barber knows the clock and Kansas City doesn’t complete a hail mary pass to get their only TD, the Bears win those two games. Not only that, Denver isn’t in the playoffs either.
The Bears need help, no question.They need help almost everywhere. But I’ll offer that Lovie got a lot out of what he was given to work with. I fully agree with Martz and Angelo being gone, but I’m willing to keep Lovie. I’d like to see what he can do when he’s dealt a decent hand for a change.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
He's been.....
…… the idea is to win it. I’d like to think he could if given some team depth.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742828131/boys-of-spring-the-movie
I'm with ya
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
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"I was saying the one time he had a decent team, they went to the Super Bowl."
What do you mean “the one time he had a decent team” Shuggs? According to you we have developed more talent than anyone in the league so by your logic we’ve had a decent team every year for the last 11 years.
They went 7-3 when Jay Cutler was leading the team
I guarantee a healthy Chicago Bears team would have went 12-4 and easily made it as the #5 seed in the playoffs.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 8:23 PM CST up reply actions
Well, that's my point
I was writing from the persepctive of Cutler and Forte still hurt, and even Hanie still sucking out loud like he did. Had the team stayed healthy, yeah, they could have made a deep run. Such is life though.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
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And everything in life happens for a reason
Perhaps, in an ironic way, this collapse shows that the Bears are close, but not close enough to contend.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
Funny, I was thinking that as well
No matter what, I’ve wanted Angelo gone. They go 12-4 and make a deep run, not gonna happen.
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
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I say
do a double-poaching in Green Bay. Get McKenzie for the GM gig, and get Tom Clements, the QB coach, to be the OC.
We simultaneously weaken our biggest rival and get top talent from the top organization in football.
and...
sign Finley and Avrils, heh.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
is Clement under contract?
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 3, 2012 9:17 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
then the Bears would have to receive permission to talk to him
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 4, 2012 8:57 AM CST up reply actions
GM
In addition to this we need a legit OC that can work with Cutler along with a QB coach if Tice doesn’t get OC. Any OC candidates emerging yet anyone know?
btw isnt todd haley available? he was an OC during arizona’s superbowl run in 2008 and besides his clash with boldin in that one game he was pretty darn good
My brother, FWIW, keeps suggesting Dave Toub
Help bring Boys of Spring The Movie to life!
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That would be something worthy to consider
He wants to be a HC someday, and the initial reports is Fisher happens to be the clear favorite in Miami to take over as the HC. Perhaps if the Bears were to offer him the OC job, he could stick around.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 3, 2012 8:33 PM CST up reply actions
Toub consistently has the unit he's responsible for in the top 5 or so in the league.
I think that makes him a solid candidate if he has a good knowledge of a Coryell offense.
"You have a young group and if they start feeling too good about themselves, that’s not a good thing. So it’s my job not to let them. So probably they will hate me. But that’s OK too. My wife hates me and she’s still married to me." - Mike Tice
Agreed
I think Toub is a good candidate for OC.
"And furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed."
Hester is a big impact
but we lead the league in blocked kicks too…and a multitude of other random ST statistics… We have the all time best returner in NFL history and a top 5 accuracy field goal kicker, but the play of our gunners has been amazing and pro-bowl worthy many times, and that takes a lot of “want to” from peripheral players…Toub gets the most out of guys on STs and makes it matter, that counts for a lot.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Its a bit of both.
Toub can only go as far as his players take him. He does have quality talent, and that helps him motivate the other players, because if they do well the whole unit is successful.
"You have a young group and if they start feeling too good about themselves, that’s not a good thing. So it’s my job not to let them. So probably they will hate me. But that’s OK too. My wife hates me and she’s still married to me." - Mike Tice
by badsamaritan on Jan 4, 2012 12:21 AM CST up reply actions
So the most recent McCaskey to be 'given' the team
has taken one season in which injury screwed up what was looking like a very good team that would have been in the playoffs and then sacked the GM. And we are all happy about this why?
This team has been here before. The worst thing that can happen to the Chicago Bears is always that a McCaskey starts to think he knows how to run the team.
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