Mike Tice: The Man, The O-Line Guru, The... Coordinator?
by Steven Schweickert on Jan 7, 2012 11:00 AM CST
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PrintAs we learned this week, Mike Tice was named the offensive coordinator for the Chicago Bears. Initially, I wasn't sure how I felt about the hiring - his lack of play-calling experience concerns me, although I recognize that in order for a coordinator to get such experience, it has to start somewhere, but also the whole "passing coordinator" thing. But, I'm usually level-headed enough to take a look at the facts before I form an opinion, so follow me below the fold and let's take a look at some of the numbers behind the Bears' new offensive coordinator.
The Mike Tice coaching resume spans since 1996, the year after his playing tenure ended with the Vikings. He's covered everything from coming is as a tight ends coach in 1996 to offensive line in 1997, then assuming the head coaching mantle of the Minnesota Vikings in 2001, taking over from ifyouwannacrownem-- I mean, Dennis Green after a miserable 5-10 start. After being let go in 2005, he took over the offensive line in Jacksonville in 2006 under the Assistant Head Coach title, then shifted to tight ends against for three years before coming to Chicago to work with the offensive line.
Since we don't exactly have any kind of easy-to-track record of improvement like we did with Mike Martz (Hey, remember when we thought we'd see passing numbers skyrocket?!), let's take a look at the change in the team as Tice's role changed. Tice took over a team in 2001 that was 24th in scoring, 12th in offensive yards, and 25th in rushing. 2002 saw the Vikings jump to second in overall yards and leading the league in rushing with the 8th most attempts. Where no Minnesota running back broke 700 yards in 2001, Michael Bennett charged into the Pro Bowl with 1296 rushing yards and 5 touchdowns, Moe Williams added another 11 touchdowns and even Daunte Culpepper broke into the end zone ten times.
2003 saw the Vikings again lead the league in total offense as Bennett only played eight games, but similar to 2001, no running back broke 750 yards (Moe Williams had 745) - Having Randy Moss that year just might have had something to do with it, as he had what can only be considered an insane year. 2004, same story - the running game fell through again, and Daunte Culpepper had a fantastic season throwing the ball. And in 2005, Randy Moss had left the team... and the offense returned to its 2001 levels - 25th in yardage, 19th in points.
But that's what happened when given the head-coaching reins, Daunte Culpepper and Randy Moss, and Scott Linehan in 2002 as offensive coordinator. How about when he shifted from tight ends coach in 1996 to offensive line in 1997? Running back Robert Smith played for the Vikings for eight seasons as a first round pick in 1993. When Tice took over the offensive line in 1997, Smith eclipsed his career high in yards-per-attempt and only missed two games after not playing in fifteen in his first four seasons, making the Pro Bowl twice and posting thousand-yard seasons each of Tice's four as offensive line coach.
So what about Jacksonville? In 2005, the team was 12th in points scored and 15th in total yardage. After arriving in 2006 and adding Maurice Jones-Drew, the team jumped from 10th in rushing to 3rd, then 2nd, then 18th as Tice was shifted back over to tight ends.
So what are we learning through this little exercise? Admittedly, not much, but we can point out some parallels between his teams in the past and the team he takes over in 2012, and some trends to point out his influence.
1) He's always had talented running backs to work with.
In fact, this is his first stop where he hasn't had a first-round-drafted running back to work with. Smith, Bennett, Fred Taylor, Jones-Drew, all first-round picks. Matt Forte is a second-rounder, and he's still pretty damn good.
2) Culpepper and Moss were really really good.
Well duh. But while the Vikings leaned on Bennett in 2002, the Vikings offense got a lot out of using Moe Williams in the red zone package and utilizing Culpepper's mobility in that area. The Bears have Jay Cutler, obviously, and he's got enough mobility to be that unpredictable weapon in the red zone as long as he's utilized that way - maybe not double-digit touchdowns, but enough to be a threat. There's no receiver on the roster that will be confused for Randy Moss any time soon unless they start pantomiming mooning the Green Bay crowd, but there's a whole offseason to add that weapon - or at least a decent receiver capable of leading a corps on day one.
3) Offenses he's been involved in have been largely ground-based, with good-to-decent TD:INT passing ratios.
Granted, with some exceptions - i.e., 2008 Jacksonville, 2003 Minnesota - but what this tells me is something we already knew - he likes his linemen big and nasty and very good at run-blocking.
4) Mobile quarterbacks can be effective.
He had Culpepper and David Garrard. Here, he has Jay Cutler. 'Nuff said.
So what do we know about how Mike Tice will coordinate the offense?
1) There will be uniformity between offensive philosophy and roster-building.
Tice likes run-blockers and running backs. Martz liked All-Pro pass-protectors and multiple-receiver sets. When there's that kind of dissonance between two offensive coaches... Remind me how in green-and-gold hell the Bears executed anything on offense? Max protection is nice, but it can't be the basis of an offense for sixteen games.
2) Tight ends will get more use.
Jim Kleinsasser in Minnesota and Marcedes Lewis in Jacksonville were generally good for about 40 receptions and 400-500 yards per season - well, in Sasser's case, until he got hurt and subsequently phased out. I'm not putting Kellen Davis on even a Marcedes Lewis level yet, but I'll expect a significant uptick in his numbers. His yards-per-reception are in line with Lewis', with far fewer receptions, and you know Cutler looks for him in the red zone given his five touchdowns. If Davis (or another tight end) gets more use in the middle, it might open up more things on the outside for other receivers.
3) Generally, the ball will still be spread around to everyone.
Randy Moss is the best receiver Tice has had on his team, and would be in that situation on a lot of NFL teams. But apart from him, other targets were about as evenly spread as it gets. In 2002, Moss had 106 catches and D'Wayne Bates had 50, but Kleinsasser had 37, Bennett had 37, and second tight end Byron Chamberlain had 34. In 2003, Moss had 111 catches, but Moe Williams had 65 and Kleinsasser had 46. In 2004, Moss had 49, Jermaine Wiggens (TE) had 71, Nate Burleson had 68 and Marcus Robinson had 47. In 2006, Reggie Williams had 52 receptions, Maurice Jones-Drew had 46, WCG Idol Matt Jones had 41 and TE George Wrighster had 39. Apart from Moss for a couple years, he's never had a dominant #1 target, and the tight end and running back have gotten just as much use as any receiver on the roster.
Will the Bears still add a top-flight receiver? They could. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't try to. But how does this work with the team's current roster?
Kellen Davis has shown to be a decent red zone target, so he has a little ability, and we know how good Matt Forte is when he's in the open field. So things might not change much for Forte, but as I said above, Davis getting more work in the middle might open up more things on the outside and deep middle, if the tight end has to be respected in the short-middle to intermediate-middle of the field. Tice's former teams included a pair of mobile quarterbacks who did their best work moving around, and we know Cutler does that well - if Tice doesn't do what he's seen work first-hand, I will be surprised.
Obviously, there's a lot of problems - first being we don't know for sure what's attributable to the offensive coordinator and what's attributable to the head coach, assistant coach, et cetera. But looking at how his teams have performed offensively and with respect to the areas he's been in charge of, I'm a little more optimistic than I was before. I'm a little concerned he needs a "passing game coordinator," but as long as he displays an awareness of the game as it's being played and carries over some of what he's historically worked with (mobile quarterback, check; good running game, check), he should at least do a serviceable job. And if the first play is a flop, we'll all just start complaining for his job anyway, right?
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I'm holding cautious optimism
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
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"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
" ...his lack of play-calling experience concerns me ..."
Huh? Mike Tice has been in the NFL for thirty years … you think he can’t call Dive Left, Dive Right, Play-action bootleg ? His mission statement is to establish the run and get Cutty some help so we can get the ball downfield. He’s concerned about the receiver position and our reluctance to hit tight ends downfield. I’d say he’s exactly what we need. He knows what we have/don’t have on the O-line so he’ll call plays to best take advantage of what we do have. He’ll keep tabs with the OL coaching wise just the same as Maranelli does with the DL.
We’re a left tackle and a big talented WR away from a Lombardi, regardless of how the defense plays. We snag Mario Williams and a Brandon Marshall or a V-Jax and we’re going to the superbowl.
Did you mean to reply to me...
or is this a reply fail since I did type that lol
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
I honestly feel Mike Tice is the right guy for the job
His philosophies mesh far better with the current roster than those of Mike Martz. He will be building a balanced attack with the same terminology used by Martz. He’s already made statements that suggest he wants a new player in the receiving corps, one that and quote “wins far more battles when 1-on-1 in man coverage than lose”. He knows what works best with Jay, Forte, and the O-Line. An aggressive, physical running game that is complimented by a “big play” passing game.
Just because he wants to run more, doesn’t mean it’s going to be anything close to a 3-4 yards and a cloud of dust type offense, rather he expressed his desire to have a passing game that gets “big chunks” and realizes if he wants to score in this league, you have to throw the ball. He seems to know exactly what he’s doing.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 11:17 AM CST reply actions
The passing game coordinator thing is actually a good thing IMO
It takes some pressure off of Tice while allowing him to focus on what he does best- the running game. Personally I think that’s an ideal for a first time OC.
Personally, I like this move. It’s simple and it helps maintain continuity. People have made a big deal about him not calling plays, but if I recall the same questions were raised regarding Marinelli when he took over the defense.
***Jeff Fisher for front office 2012***
(A real change we can believe in)
by Joeb'n777 on Jan 7, 2012 11:24 AM CST via mobile reply actions
While true,
One working doesn’t guarantee it working a second time.
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If a people-avoiding gaming hermit is on Twitter, I should be too. Follow me!
by Steven Schweickert on Jan 7, 2012 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
I was just trying to point out that just because a guy has never called plays before shouldn’t mean we right him off. Not saying you are, but there are others who have given that impression.
***Jeff Fisher for front office 2012***
(A real change we can believe in)
by Joeb'n777 on Jan 7, 2012 11:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I have a feeling
our offense will have the nastiest, meanest SOBs running the football and slinging it deep when we need to pass. I have a pretty good feeling about this if the bears can get a high draft pick wide receiver and maybe a left tackle if Webb isnt in the plans. Unless they shift Carimi to the left and therefore will look for a right tackle. Another center/guard prospect can’t hurt either.
This is a very similar situation to when marinelli got the DC job but was still involved with the D-Linemen. What I’m worried about tho is that our D-Line still can’t generate pressure besides #90, I hope the same thing doesn’t happen with the O-Line since Tice now has more responsibilities.
btw
Would the passing coordinator also be a QBs coach as well? Would he serve both these functions at the same time and is there anybody right now that could fit this criteria?
yes
Usually the passing game coord. Is also a QB coach… It’s more common than we’d think.
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 7, 2012 11:59 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Speaking of which
A “new” name has surfaced as a favorite to become said QB coach/PGC, and that is former Broncos QB coach Jed Fisch(?).
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Will get linky as soon as I get to a computer
Its on the Chicago Tribune
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Here you go with the link and statement with other candidates named:
Other candidates the Bears are expected to explore include one-time Bears quarterbacks coach Greg Olson, University of Miami offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, former Seahawks offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates and former Buccaneers quarterbacks coach Alex Van Pelt. Bates and Fisch worked with Jay Cutler with the Broncos; Fisch is expected to be high on the Bears’ list.
Link is from the Chicago Tribune.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
thanks
“Seriously, Mike was just magnificent with attention to detail. If I wanted to do something and just in a dismissive way said, ‘No, this will be OK, (the opponent) doesn’t do that much,’ I knew the next day on my desk was going to sit 10, 12 tapes of ‘This is why you’re going to get it shoved up your rear end.’”
think we found our OC
Same here
And thank Ditka it didn’t take until the day prior to the draft to find the next OC!
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
This gives me a lot of hope for next season
missing number 6
by Jessica312 on Jan 7, 2012 1:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
he's solid
He was a Bears candidate a couple years ago
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 7, 2012 12:07 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Sean Jensen said
That Tice did call plays for a stretch in Minnesota when they were breaking in their new OC.
I’m more optimistic the more I look into his background. Former QB in college, NFL TE, line and TE coach, and look at the good offensive minds he’s worked with, Denny Green, Brian Billick, Scott Linehan, and even Martz.
My only question that I have yet to have answered is what playbook will he work with, does he have his own, or will he keep the terminology?
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 7, 2012 12:04 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
In an interview posted on the team website
He stated that it will not be an overhaul of the system, rather for the most part things will stay the same in terms of terminology. The only difference will be how the plays are called, as well as the mentality.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
score
WCG's Resident Nickelback and Boy Band fan
Also rated Worst WCG Blogger by Dr. Steven Schweickert's extensive "Total BR" (Blogger Rating)
"Oh Dilfer, give me the strength...
to be as bad a WCG Contributor as you are an announcer/authority on anything. Peace be with you. " (JoetheBoss)
Makes sense
To keep the same terminology so the bears can just continue adding new stuff they havn’t previously used. What do I know tho, maybe Tice has a playbook under his bed from way back he’s gona crack open.
Tice is smart ...
Most players aren’t. So I think he’ll keep it really simple and he’ll let Cutty take what the defense gives him. Effective traps and treys and then hit them with play-action stuff, bootlegs etc. I think we’ll kill with Tice.
Read that a day or two ago, that Tice was behind the Vikings’ most successful stretch as an offense in recent history. Wish I had the link to post in response to everyone panicking because Tice has never been a coordinator before…
When I assume, I'm not "making an ass out of u and me"... I'm actually putting u between me and an ass.
OMG the audibles are back!
Cutler will be able to audible in Tice’s system, which he wasn’t allowed to do under Martz, and the playbook won’t be nearly as difficult to digest as it has been.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 12:18 PM CST reply actions
They're loud.
Weekend contributor and official editorial lackey/waitstaff at Windy City Gridiron
If a people-avoiding gaming hermit is on Twitter, I should be too. Follow me!
by Steven Schweickert on Jan 7, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
Hallelujah!!!!
missing number 6
by Jessica312 on Jan 7, 2012 1:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Feeling really good about next season
If Tice keeps his promises, if we get a GM with a good eye for evaluating offensive (especially WR) talent, and if our guys stay healthy and D stays solid…. Playoffs, baby, maybe even all the way :)
missing number 6
by Jessica312 on Jan 7, 2012 1:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wonder how many sacks
could have been prevented if the QB was allowed to change the play after seeing the pass rush lining up. Martz’s silent offense is an anachronism these days.
I do think...
this is a good move for the Bears offense, trying to maintain the most continuity is likely a good short-term solution. A few positive things that seem to be in the offering:
1. Audilbles-cannot stress how important these are
2. Using a TE as more than a glorified OT
3. Recognizing the need AND importance of a #1 WR to make plays
4. Moving Cutler around to use his abilities to their bast potential.
5. Wearing down a defense with a power running game.
6. Having an identity and attitude to coalesce the offensive team concept around.
Some concerns:
1. Faith in the current O-line to be more than just mediocre
2. Putting Forte a the forefront of the offensive attack, not Cutler
3. Tice’s ability to be a savvy play caller; i.e. run different plays from the same formations to confuse the defense the second time around
4. Lovie having too much say in the “we get off the bus running” style of surrender offense. This IS a passing league and having an offense that can regularly convert 3rd and 10-15 yards and score in the red zone isn’t just a luxury, it’s a necessity!
There's a fine line between stupid...and clever!
I don't want to see us
Go from being “pass happy” to “run heavy.” In order to succeed we’ll have to stay away from becoming predictable. Just as we became predictable at times under Martz when he would abandon the run.
I want to see complete balance in the ground game and the pass game
Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Leading the NFL in swagtangibles
I don't think Forte is at the forefront of the attack
Of the rushing attack certainly, but not the whole offense. Jay Cutler will simply be doing the same thing while he was at his best in Denver; hand the ball off until the safeties cheat up, then bomb it down field on a PA Bootleg for a TD.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
With a little more help on the OL, we'll be an all-round scary offense.
We’ll be Saints-good if we get a couple of good receivers. How we play on D won’t even matter.
Forte running will always be secondary to Culter and the pass game
as it should be. Fortunately, Forte contributes a lot as a receiver, too.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 7, 2012 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
Cutler will be happy
Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Leading the NFL in swagtangibles
on another note what is cutty doing in this pic?
Telling a story about driving?
missing number 6
by Jessica312 on Jan 7, 2012 1:42 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I missed the caption lol
missing number 6
by Jessica312 on Jan 7, 2012 1:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Meanwhile in Chicago...
Jay Cutler: “See this Caleb, this is how you drive a car”
Caleb Hanie: “I know how to drive, Jay…btw why are you showing me this?”
Jay Cutler: “Cause you certainly can’t drive an offense down the field..”
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Telling a dirty joke
Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan
Phoenix Suns, Arizona Diamondbacks, Phoenix Coyotes, Arizona Rattlers fan
[I have always lived in Arizona, dad is from Chicago].
Leading the NFL in swagtangibles
Quick note
2003 was a great rushing year still for Minnesota. Top 5 in yards per game, top 5 in yards per carry, 2300+ yards, 18 TDs, etc. they just didn’t have a 750/1000 yard rusher.
2004 was a big fall off, but they were 28th in rushing attempts and still top 5 in yards per carry.
His teams have always run blocked well, and gotten great yards per carry, including this season with the Bears. Expect our team to show that similarity – a 4.7+ yard per carry average as a team…and that is at least something to build on, when paired with your “spreading the ball around” analysis of the Passing game.
My take – if we add a top tier receiver in FA, and draft a decent talent for line, and heaven forbid draft another passing game target, our offense could be very conservative but effective and capable of unleashing big plays through play action. Forte & Bennett should continue to see good looks, add a more consistent #1 target and you should have a real passing game, and we already know Tice can take a crap line and teach them to run block.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
Right. Thought I said the team was still really good rushing.
If I didn’t, it’s an oversight.
…
And I guess I didn’t. Whoops.
Weekend contributor and official editorial lackey/waitstaff at Windy City Gridiron
If a people-avoiding gaming hermit is on Twitter, I should be too. Follow me!
by Steven Schweickert on Jan 7, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
man
I can’t wait for the day when analysts and teams will be talking about ways to stop the bears high powered offense consisting of Cutler, Forte, Blackmon, Colston, Bennett and a steamrolling o-line.
boy..
by beartopia on Jan 7, 2012 2:15 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
if we would have lost to minny,
Blackmon would have been possible. It would have been easier to move up from 11 or 12 than 19. Maybe Alshon Jeffery will last until 19.
by Ryan21 on Jan 7, 2012 2:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jeffrey's size may be his undoing though
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 8, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
trade up time
Blackmon is a machine. He can have AJ Green type first year impacts.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
i like jeffries watched alot SC games this year hes a big target with big play ability
Tony
by chitown-tony on Jan 7, 2012 2:53 PM CST via Android app reply actions
I can almost guarantee his draft stock took a hit after he got kicked out of the bowl game for a big fight
However, he also was the bowl game MVP, something I’ve never seen happen before. Still, he may fall out of the 1st round. If anything, the pecking order could be as follows:
1) Justin Blackmon
2) Michael Floyd
3) Kendall Wright
4) Alshon Jefferies.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
i'm all for jefferies if he's there when we pick.
all his coaches and teammates say he has an outstanding work ethic and he is a great teammate. I heard the scuffle during the bowl game was due to an opposing player talking smack to one of Jefferies’ teammates and it escalated. At least we know he will defend his fellow players and is passionate. I think this is also the first time he’s ever been in any sort of on the field altercation. His record’s been clean leading up to that and he’s not considered a hot headed player.
Plus, USC’s passing offense has been really inconsistent due to their running game and QB problems. I think he’s going to be the steal of the draft.
due to the success of their running game and their QB problems.
sorry typo, fixed so it makes more sense.
I'd feel better if
Tice just gave Cutty the reigns to the offense and not try to force a system that doesn’t fit, ala Martz. My question would be how much of this offense is going to be built on Jay? Because before the dreaded thumb injury, this offense was built on Jay. Will that offense be more instituted or will it be another force feed of frustration?
anything
that revolves around protecting the quarterback and getting a #1 WR will help cutty. he wont mind
We can get a #1 WR without waiting three years for the guy to develop in the NFL ....
Brandon Marshall. V-Jax. Just do it. ‘Cause we don’t have three years with Urlacher, Peppers, Peanut, Garza and Briggsy …
The Bears want to get more TEs involved in the passing game, according to Mike Tice
And, a really big named TE has just declared for the NFL draft. Bears Fans, may I present to you, Former Clemson Tiger TE Dwayne Allen:
All-American tight end Dwayne Allen said Friday night he’s giving up his senior season to enter the NFL draft. Allen, the John Mackey Award winner this year as the nation’s top tight end, is the top-ranked tight end by ESPN’s Scouts Inc. and the No. 30 overall ranked player.
And a little more from the link:
The NFL is also ready for the 6-foot-4, 255-pound Allen, who has sure hands, powerful arms and the knack for getting free in the secondary.
Allen caught 50 passes for 598 yards and eight touchdowns — all single-season Clemson records — to help the Tigers (10-4) to their first Atlantic Coast Conference championship in 20 years. He was also picked for the AP’s All-America first team.
Understandably, DE, OL, and WR all take consideration for the Bears’ 1st pick; however, this guy happens to be the top ranked TE in the draft, and thus deserves 1st round consideration from the Bears, who sit at 19th overall in the 1st round.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 3:16 PM CST reply actions
I'd be happy with getting a receiving TE in the first round instead of a WR.
Of course, thats under the assumption we grab either VJax, Colston or Bowe.
"You have a young group and if they start feeling too good about themselves, that’s not a good thing. So it’s my job not to let them. So probably they will hate me. But that’s OK too. My wife hates me and she’s still married to me." - Mike Tice
Dwayne Allen isn't just a receiving TE, though
He is a complete player at the position. Very good run blocker in addition to being a freak of nature in the passing game as a TE. And additionally, we need someone to compliment both Davis as well as Spaeth.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
i think the bears should draft D
in the first round but this would be a great pick. Paired alongside a bowe or colston and thats a good O.
I've watched every game he's played for Clemson
and that kid opens up holes for Andre Ellington, and last year Jamie Harper, like no one’s business. He was a phenomenal counterpoint to Sammy Watkins, as you can tell by his numbers, but also because he can create confusion. If nothing else, Florida State has a fairly good, to quite talented, defense and they were at a loss as to which one was the bigger deep threat. There is some fear at his blocking skills being lacking when defenses knew Tajh was going to have to rely on Ellington, they were able to shut down the run game. Most notably in the NC State slaughtering when Watkins was sidelined. But for the most part, and as much as I would love to see him back in Orange and Purple for another year, he would be an asset to any team in the NFL.
Will sing for Diet Coke.
by red shell queen on Jan 7, 2012 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
Though, now that I think of it, the Tigers o-line is a bit crap.
That’s what shut down the run, for the most part. He works as a good band-aide to crap lines though… Ha!
Will sing for Diet Coke.
by red shell queen on Jan 7, 2012 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
And that is a good reason why the Bears should draft him!
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
No Tight Ends in the 1st round, please.
I saw mostly good play from Spaeth and Davis this season. And also a few TE’s in preseason that I wanted to see more of. Things will look different with Tice. And speaking of Tice, he’d probably want Trent Richardson. Imagine that tandem. And that’s… when the playaction hits you.
Bearsh!tt!n It ain't obscene- I'm a Bears fan that likes hittin and exclamation points.
Intriguing
If he’s able to being that set of abilities to the NFL, I wonder if that wouldn’t be a great first choice. Able to help with blocking, and then good enough to grab big brown things thrown at him once the OL stabilizes.
Would he last until the 19th pick? We’re probably not the only team(’s fans) looking at him…
When I assume, I'm not "making an ass out of u and me"... I'm actually putting u between me and an ass.
He might . . .
He IS declaring a year early after all. Juniors can have a rougher road getting drafted early than seniors do because there’s uncertainty with the player that would not be there after one more year of college ball. It’s not the same as the NBA where there’s an advantage is leaving the college game as a freshman.
He's currently the 30th ranked player on the board
I think he will last till the Bears pick. I expect a ton of DL, OL, WRs, and DBs to be picked in the 1st round. More than 1 TEs rarely are picked in the 1st round of the draft.
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
And maybe qb's too...
Five foot three seems to thrive on his misery...
by awfullyquiet on Jan 8, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
All the projections I've seen have hi
***Jeff Fisher for front office 2012***
(A real change we can believe in)
by Joeb'n777 on Jan 7, 2012 6:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
All the projections I've seen have him going in the middle of the 2nd
***Jeff Fisher for front office 2012***
(A real change we can believe in)
by Joeb'n777 on Jan 7, 2012 6:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
So...any with the Bears selecting him in the second?
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
That would be a very wise pick-up
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 8, 2012 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
I think Tice will do better than people think . . .
Despite the “run, run, run” thing being preached I highly doubt that’s the game plan. Lovie and Tice have preached running the ball but the last two years the Bears haven’t really done that as much. We’ll probably be using the run game to set up deep balls and we just need a WR or two who can achieve separation and then catch those deep balls. A WR with Knox’s speed but with Bennett’s hands.
Keeping a simplified Martzfense means that they can keep McCown around too if the staff liked what they saw. I think that McCown if he does well in preseason may be the best option to back Cutler up unless the Bears feel like trying to grab David Gerrard. We all know Tice likes Gerrard . . .
Garrard (sic)
Lulz I spellfail.
Anyway, I think Bowe would probably be the best free agent WR out there. Though if Blackmon falls to us some magical way GRAB HIM. Thinking Wright or Jeffries will be more realistic though. That’s assuming we don’t draft another young OL.
well
Moss and Culpepper did alright. Tice doesn’t hate the passing game.
"just as Gary Fencik will go down as the last person to catch a Joe Namath pass, Wootton will be remembered in NFL history as the last player to sack Brett Favre." - John "Moon" Mullin
about the TE
Would bears than keep 3 TE’s or 4 next year if they were to draft one and adams comes back from IR along with spaeth and davis? I really think Spaeth is a valuable contributor in the run game and davis in the pass game, so would there be need to get a true pass catching TE if davis isn’t in the plans?
Kyle Adams can be that true pass catching TE
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders
It's all about THE []_[] baby!!!
~"Smile when u being attacked,laugh when they talking boutcha,wave when they hating on u and Pray when they leave u alone Somethings wrong!"~ Deion Sanders
At least FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER before you judge me fool
really?
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 7, 2012 8:43 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Have you seen Davis' highlight reel?
Granted it’s a short reel thanks to Mike Martz, but the dude can catch some crazy passes when he feels like it. Spaeth and Davis are 6’7 – you’re always open when you’re 6’7. Martz didn’t get that.
I agree.
Five foot three seems to thrive on his misery...
by awfullyquiet on Jan 8, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
isn't like
1/4th of Davis’ receptions have been for TDs
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders
It's all about THE []_[] baby!!!
~"Smile when u being attacked,laugh when they talking boutcha,wave when they hating on u and Pray when they leave u alone Somethings wrong!"~ Deion Sanders
At least FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER before you judge me fool
I liked Martz...
when he adjusted the game plan before the Cutler injury. We were running on all cylinders and are offense was finally looking like it was suppose to. After Martz was fired, I made a comment about Cutler and our offense having to learn a new system once again. After making that comment, I heard Lovie say they were going to run a similar type of offense with some of the same characteristics as Martz. I didn’t understand what that meant at the time thinking to myself, how are they going to accomplish this with a new OC? Now with the promotion of Tice, I can see what they were talking about. I think at that time, their decision was going to be Tice before they even announced it. I hope they do and concentrate on the type of offensive game plans they had during their win streak before Cutler went down. They looked like an offense to be reckoned with. On that note, I was not impressed with the job Tice did with our OL..so I am hoping he does a better job as our OC.
Nothing like smash mouth football, baby!! May my blood run orange and navy blue forever!!
why
wren’t you impressed? I think Tice did very well with he pieces provided to him and injuries did not help the cause, yet somehow the beginning of this year the o-line was becoming respectable despite a couple of them missing on IR and others not playing their original positions (Garza, Louis).
Now that Tice is in charge of the entire O, the playbook will be simplified from 300 plays to about 100-110 I read in one of the articles. In addition I’m hoping the new GM will actually draft a couple of o-linemen that actually will play the position they were drafted for.
Communication should be a vast improvement
No more wasted 1st down TOs!
Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that
by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Jan 7, 2012 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
Ya know...
I don’t mind this move, as long as they bring in a passing coach/QB coach. Jeremy Bates would be great. I could see them grabbing a LT in the 1st round, or a RT and moving Carimi to LT. Tice loves big nasty run blockers, therefor I could see him even grabbing one of those big nasties out of Stanford. All in all i don’t mind this move simply because there were no OCs who were going to come in and coach under a guy who probably only has 1 year left in town (Lovie), so why not just promote within the organization.
I’d like to see them grab a WR in FA, but I wouldn’t be completely opposed to taking Nick Toon, McNutt, or AJ Jenkins in the 3rd round.
As far as TEs go, don’t forget Kyle Adams. He was “redshirted” this year as a rookie, after a very good showing in the pre-season. He’s a very athletic TE, at about 6’3 260lbs. He reminds me a lot of Owen Daniels.
This move could either A) really work with what the Bears have talent wise and utilize the players how they should be, or B) be a completely epic fail and end up with cleaning house in 2013.
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders
It's all about THE []_[] baby!!!
~"Smile when u being attacked,laugh when they talking boutcha,wave when they hating on u and Pray when they leave u alone Somethings wrong!"~ Deion Sanders
At least FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER before you judge me fool
Yeah that's right . . .
We don’t really need a TE do we? Kyle Adams could wind up fulfilling the pass-catching requirement for us and he’s a better blocker than Olsen.
Shane Day's appointment always amazed me.
He was photo-copying playbooks and stapling them together for the Niners before he came to Chicago. Then he’s Cutler’s QB coach – instructing him in the finer points of NFL passing ? What?
Yeah
Blah. Oh well time will tell as always. I seriously hope whoever is interviewing for GM is offered full control of coaching staff while this patchwork is in place for 2012. No high caliber or big name GM ks going to sign on with this many shackles around.
by TheMan1 on Jan 7, 2012 7:36 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I imagine something like this happened in 2010 after Martz was hired
Martz: Mike! It’s so great to finally get to work with you. I always thought the Vikings offenses were the Rams biggest competition (and not the opposing defense), so I’m really excited to have this opportunity.
Tice: Hey, I really appreciate that. I was only taking care of my business, and can’t take credit for anything beyond that.
Martz: But, in any case, I wanted to to talk about the offensive line for this coming season.
Tice: Well, I’m the offensive line coach, so you found a good person to talk to about this. I’m going to put together the meanest, most aggressive run blocking line I can. We’ll be mauling teams and they won’t know what happened to them.
Martz: Actually, I was hoping to get a line that focused more on pass blocking.
Tice: I don’t follow.
Martz: The NFL is a passing league. Everything favors passing the ball over running the ball, and if we can protect the quarterback long enough to pass the ball, the offense can be more productive.
Tice: So you don’t want a great run blocking offensive line?
Martz: It’s not that I don’t want one, I just want pass protection to be the number one priority.
Tice: Ok, boss! Pass protection is my number one priority.
Fast forward a year, after the intervention, and after the draft.
Martz: Hey, Mike. You ready to talk about the offensive line?
Tice: I’m the offensive line coach, I’m always ready to talk about the offensive line.
Martz: So last year I asked you to focus on pass protection, and that didn’t work out so we agreed to get the line playing more aggressively, moving forward.
Tice: I’ve always believed lines should be big, mean, aggressive run blockers.
Martz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I see we drafted a new tackle. I assume you had some input in that decision.
Tice: Oh, yeah. As offensive line coach, I get asked about the offensive line a lot. I looked at a lot of players, and helped everyone evaluate which players would best fit our system.
Martz: So you’re excited about this Carimi kid?
Tice: He’s big, aggressive, and has a mean streak. He was my favorite tackle, and will be perfect for our system.
Martz: So he’s a great pass blocking left tackle?
Tice: Pass blocking? He’s out of Wisconsin, didn’t you read anything about him?
Martz: But he has great pass blocking potential, right?
Tice: Right now, he looks like he is playing patty-cake with the pass rushers, but if we can get the line playing aggressively, and moving forward, he’ll be a great right tackle.
Martz: Pass blocking is still the lines number one priority, right?
Tice: Don’t you know it!
Skip ahead to the regular season.
Martz: Mike! Do you have time for some offensive line talk?
Tice: If I was in the middle of performing open heart surgery, I’d be ready to talk offensive line.
Martz: That Carimi injury sure is a bummer, but I noticed we still aren’t getting very good pass protection.
Tice: Injuries happen in this league, but we still have a lot of good big, aggressive guys who can play moving forward.
Martz: Yeah, but about pass protection…
Tice: Oh, yeah, well, about that. These guys are really better at run blocking. That isn’t going to be an issue, is it?
Martz: Oh, hrm, well, right. Ok. So do you have anything to say about these penalties? They’ve been backing us up, and forcing us into throwing situations, where we really need a line that can pass protect.
Tice: Penalties happen in this league, but we have a lot of good big, aggressive guys who can play moving forward.
Martz: And that Omiyale kid, aren’t you the one deciding who is picking the starters on the offensive line?
Tice: He’s a big guy with the talent to play on this line. I don’t think you’ll find anyone who likes him more than I do.
And Tice is the guy they keep and promote, and they let Martz go.
So in the end...
What we’ve got(maybe) are a bunch of big, mean and aggressive maulers, to go with Pro Bowl HB. Martz was too stubborn to adapt/adjust/alter his playcalling to the hand he was dealt. The Bears, wanting to maintain some sort of continuity, retain Tice. The Bears, smartly playing the hand they were dealt, make the decision to bring in “the whole ‘passing coordinator’ thing.”
Bearsh!tt!n It ain't obscene- I'm a Bears fan that likes hittin and exclamation points.
Martz did adapt... eventually
Tice hasn’t really shown the ability to protect a passer, or maybe he didn’t adapt/adjust/alter his coaching to what his boss (the offensive coordinator) was asking him to do. We all assume Martz was the one who stubbornly kept calling 7 step drops when they weren’t working, but maybe it was Tice stubbornly refusing to adapt his coaching to create a line that could protect the quarterback for those 7 step drops. Is that guy an improvement over the guy we just had?
Maybe Tice doesn’t like mobile passers for the extra dimension they bring to the game so much as he isn’t able to get the offensive line to create a suitable pocket.
The NFL is a passing league. I don’t think the point is worth debating. There are three teams right now who are excelling without much by way of rushing or defense. I don’t expect or even want the Bears to become what those teams are, but there are lessons the Bears can learn from those teams, like the fact that it is possible to be successful passing the ball.
Consider, if you will, the possibility that the problem with the Bears offense in those first games of the past two seasons wasn’t with Martz, per se, but with Tice’s complete inability to protect the quarterback. Would the offenses of the Patriots, Saints, and Packers benefit from Tice’s coaching, or would they look like a mad scientists experiment gone bad?
The offensive line is probably the weakest part of the team (unless Martz was covering up for the wide receivers), and the Bears just promoted the position coach of that team to be the offensive coordinator. Sure, the line is young, and JA might not have provided Tice enough talent, but Tice basically refused FA help (preferring the young guys who haven’t learned bad habits). Tice made this bed (I don’t know what else he did in it), and he’ll have to sleep in it, but I’d rather sever ways with the guy who made the mess, and then worry about cleaning it up.
If Cutler and Forte ran the gameplan the Bears ran against the Packers, which is what I think the Tice offense will look like, they certainly would have scored more points, but I don’t think they would have held onto the ball longer, or kept up with the Packers. I just don’t understand how this Tice thing will benefit the Bears in the short term, or the long term.
I won’t deny the fact that teams can’t be successful running the ball in the league these days, but I really think having Tice as the offensive coordinator will be a step back from Martz, and maybe on the level of Ron Turner. Forte may thrive under Tice (Forte is good, but teams aren’t really built around running backs these days), but I think Cutler won’t be utilized to his potential.
So, the Bears are taking the lemons they have and are making lemonade. I’m not entirely convinced that Tice isn’t the reason the Bears have those lemons in the first place.
I see your concerns, but
how many times did we see a TE 1-on-1 with a DE like Jared Allen? That’s play design and play call (Martz) that led to a breakdown of protection. It’s those kind of mismatches that with better play-calling and the ability to audible at the line when Jay sees an obvious mismatch that will improve our pass blocking.
I like Lance Louis, he’s a tough, mean player. He’s a guard though, playing him at RT was a necessity because Carimi got hurt and Omiyale was epically bad. Louis was always going to have struggles vs edge rushers because he’s a guard moved outside. that won’t be the case next year either.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 9, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Cautiously optimistic right now
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