Bears' Offensive Line Has Surprisingly Deep Interior

by Steven Schweickert on Feb 12, 2012 7:00 PM CST in Roster Analysis

Before the season started, the Bears' interior offensive line was made up of a bunch of guys that Jerry Angelo probably couldn't have traded away for a ham sandwich if he tried. Lance Louis was a seventh-round pick, Chris Williams was just learning the ropes of the guard position, Roberto Garza was switching from his guard position to take over the center spot from Olin Kreutz, Edwin WIlliams had some good games but couldn't crack the starting lineup, and Chris Spencer was brought in in the Training Camp Express as a "busted pick" from Tim Ruskell's Seattle era.

After the season? All five of those players started multiple games throughout the year, the team rushed for over 2000 yards for the second time in 20 years, and rushes through the line's interior garnered 4 yards per attempt.

So it's probably pretty certain that these five will stick on the roster. In Lester's excellent Roster Turnover series, he stated he could see a scenario where Garza is dropped due to salary cap concerns if Spencer shows up well in camp. He also points out that Spencer is the highest paid lineman at $2.25 million, plus a roster bonus.

Let that sink in for a second. For as "deep" as this pool of linemen is (especially guards and centers), the top two linemen in salary are making $4 million combined. And we wonder why the line's struggled? Hard to have a productive unit when three players are making one million or more. I'm not saying throwing money is the solution, but it sure can't hurt.

But I digress, particularly because a decent unit at value is usually paramount to a championship team. And in this case, the above five players provided 14 games at right guard (Spencer), 16 starts at center (Garza), 12 starts combined at right guard and right tackle (Louis), nine games at left guard before a season ending injury (C-Will) and the final seven games at left guard (E-Will), all at a combined cost last season of shy of six million. In addition, four of those players have taken at least practice snaps at center, two of them can play tackle, and three of them (Spencer and both Williamses) are entering the final year of their contracts.

So heading into next year, how comfortable are you with the interior of the Bears' offensive line? Would you like to see them add a player to the unit, and who would you bump off to add that player?

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The middle isn't awful.

The biggest problem on the line last year was that Omiyale was the swing tackle. Spend a third round pick on a guy who can pass block (I don’t care if a swing tackle run blocks like a little lamb as long as Cutler stays upright). Maybe a late pick on a developmental type center or guard.

by weepingbear on Feb 12, 2012 7:12 PM CST reply actions

the stats show that this was a very good run blocking unit

And in my opinion (I did breakdown every sack on the season) I think the pass blocking wasn’t as bad as the numbers showed. Pre thumb injury the passing game stabilized and post thumb injury a lot of the sacks were a combination poor QB play and poor play calling as well as some poor o-line play.

I think with a full offseason, the best three guys will step up and take control of the interior. If the Bears can get the tackles figured out I think the line may be a strength in 2012. But that LT spot is a hell of an if.

When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends. | @wiltfongjr

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Feb 12, 2012 7:16 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions

I agree

I think that while the line play wasn’t stellar they took far too much blame and criticism. Plus take Garza out of the equation and they’re young. If they could stay healthy and develop…?

Above all; keep 'em guessing, never let them lose their sense of confusion.

by Just Dave on Feb 12, 2012 7:27 PM CST up reply actions

Still bottom of the league at pass blocking and even though the run blocking was better.

It only managed to be rated 24th at Football Outsiders. The Bears were ranked 8th on open field yards which tells us that a lot of the success was due to the RB (insert PAYDAMAN}. At power rushing (when you need one or two yards on 3rd or 4th down) The Bears only finished 20th and only two teams had their RB stuffed for a loss more often than the Bears.

I am not putting down what they were able to achieve but there remains a lot of room for improvement.

. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank

by ed_brown on Feb 13, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions

Cutler made the line look good

by scrambling and improvising. Our O-Line sucks. Just look at the time Brees and Brady and Rodgers and E Manning have. We need O-Linemen, especially a Left Tackle…

Often Wrong, Never In Doubt.

by Gromowicz on Feb 14, 2012 12:41 AM CST up reply actions

Interior will be fine..one way or the other

With our first rounder from last season coming back at RT we should be good to go in every spot except LT because of all our options for both guards and center. They really need to put up a high pick to try and get a stud LT or try to find one in free agency. I haven’t really looked at the draft stock for left tackles so I can’t really say what our options are there.

by Pretender85 on Feb 12, 2012 9:17 PM CST reply actions

I think this is a great time to draft a center, 3rd/4th round

They guys inside are fine, but the Bears don’t have a longterm answer at center. Get a young guy and stick him on IR for a year.

by YaoPau on Feb 12, 2012 10:20 PM CST reply actions

Seems like a waste of resources at this time with both Garza and Spencer on the roster.

There are plenty of more significant needs to spend that 3rd/4th round pick on. The Bears can wait at least until next year’s draft and they can wait for a draft with an elite center prospect. The Bears should not be spending on of their top 5 picks on a player that will have no impact on the 2012 season.

by Scotter on Feb 12, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions

Hey man

Fair point, but 4th rounders barely play as it is. Look at the Bears’ recent 4th rounders…

2010: Corey Wooten played 1/10th of the team’s defensive snaps
2009: Melton didn’t play, DJ Moore was active for 3 games but didn’t see the field as far as I can tell
2008: Craig Steltz played 1/8th of the team’s defensive snaps
2007: Josh Beekman played 1 game.
2006: Jamar Williams played sparingly in 3 games, registering 2 tackles.

Mid-late round picks in the Lovie regime usually take two+ years to make an impact, Spencer is signed just through this season, and Garza looks like he’s nearing the end of the road (2nd lowest rated C on PFF, turns 33 next month). So if the Bears want a prospect who can take over at center in 2013/2014, I think they should draft him now, and chances are passing on a need position 4th round won’t hurt them. I think the same generally goes for 3rd rounders too. Conte makes that a tougher argument, but before that there’s been a long line of zero-impact rookie seasons by Bears’ 3rd rounders. I’d cut either Garza/Louis to make way for the youngin’.

by YaoPau on Feb 13, 2012 12:12 AM CST up reply actions

Using Angelo's draft history?

I’d rather see you win this argument using Playoff team’s draft picks as the examples.
As for the Center of the Future prospect, UDFA practice squad development worked with Edwin Williams. Webb and Louis were 7th round picks. If you have that much time to develop a player then you have more time to dig through the discount O-Line bargain bins.

I don’t think good teams that make good picks, redshirt players like that. But I could be wrong.

Bearsh!tt!n It ain't obscene- I'm a Bears fan that likes hittin and exclamation points.

by Bearsh!tt!n on Feb 13, 2012 12:45 AM CST up reply actions

One of Angelo's strengths was back-half drafting

He’s certainly been better in the back-half than Emery.

Look at Emery’s 4th round picks if you want. Jalil Brown had 2 tackles all year. Lawrence Sidbury had 4 tackles and 1 sack. Stephen Nicolas had a decent impact with 29 tackles and 1 sack, but no starts. Martrez Milner had 50 receiving yards. Chauncey Davis started 5 games, with 21 tackles and 1 sack.

by YaoPau on Feb 13, 2012 12:52 AM CST up reply actions

Emery did not draft any of those players.

And he still has yet draft his first player.

But my point was, good teams that make good picks (playoff teams) do not usually redshirt their 3rd or 4th round picks.

And when it comes to Angelo’s back half, don’t confuse less-bad with a strength. He did hit a few homeruns. But because he was always swinging for the fences he struck out a lot and that left our depth chart depleted at key positions. And when your draft picks can’t even make the 53 man roster? Now that’s when you redshirt a player. To save yourself the embarrassment of cutting a player that you drafted just a few months earlier.

Bearsh!tt!n It ain't obscene- I'm a Bears fan that likes hittin and exclamation points.

by Bearsh!tt!n on Feb 13, 2012 3:43 AM CST up reply actions

How about this

This is the list of every team’s 4th round picks since Angelo became GM, sorted by Approximate Value. That stat is worthless at comparing star players, but I think it works as a baseline indicator for answering this question.

I’ll consider a player with an AV >=2 as a contributor. For reference, Paea had a 2 AV despite playing limited snaps. Conte was a 4. Carimi ended up being a 1 because of the injury. J’Marcus Webb had a 5 AV his rookie year simply by being on the field, even though he sucked.

337 4th rounders listed, and 131 had an AV of >=2 (39%). That’s a tad higher than Jerry’s 33%. Average AV was 1.697 compared to 1.583 for Jerry.

4+ seems to be a decent indicator of a difference maker, and there were 51 of those (15%). Jerry found 3 in his twelve picks (Todd Johnson, Nate Vasher, Alex Brown, for 25%). Overall I’d say Jerry did a decent job with his 4th round picks relative to the league average.

There really doesn’t seem to be any correlation between good teams and average AV of their 4th round picks. The top 10 is a mix of good and bad teams (HOU, MIA, NOR, IND, WAS, TAM, ARI, MIN, DEN, NYJ) … the bottom 10, same thing (CAR, BAL, PIT, SDG, CLE, PHI, DET, KAN, CIN, GB).

The Ravens had just one player at AV4 (Demetrius Williams), and nobody else above AV2. The Packers had just one player at AV3 (TJ Lang), and nobody above that. Pitt & Philly had zero players above AV2. San Diego has had just one player above AV1.

I think the truth lies somewhere between what we were each saying. You’re right that my recent list of Angelo picks is a little harsh, and in reality 40% of 4th rounders contribute as rookies. But then again 60% don’t contribute, and 85% don’t make much of a difference, so I don’t think that changes my logic that IRing a midrounder for a year to groom him for next year is risking much in the way of immediate help. The Bears have had recent success with stashing a project for a year and developing him (Bennett, Melton).

by YaoPau on Feb 13, 2012 5:14 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah but you can prove anything with facts.

by weepingbear on Feb 13, 2012 7:55 AM CST up reply actions

I may not agree with you, but I respect your reply.

I guess when it comes to the redshirting thing, I’m going to keep on thinking what I think regardless of what any statistic tell me. There is a 100% chance that I would blame statistical failure instead of questioning the correctness of
my opinion.
But the link is great. Much appreciated. And I think it bears out my opinion of Angelo being the Adam Dunn of GM’s when it came down to his drafting, back half or otherwise.

So yeah, that link gets better if you look at the last 6 years, 2006-2011.
129 players with an AV =1 or better. Divided by 32 teams = 4.03.
Angelo had just 2 picks at AV =1 or better.

65 players with AV =2 or better. Divided by 32 teams = 2.03.
Angelo had 0 picks at AV =2 or better.
Six draft picks over 6 years in any round is a very small sample size, but I’m guessing that was pretty much the league average, right?

It looks like a good case study of how to minimize the positive impact of your 4th round draft pick in their rookie year.

These stats make it look terrible, right? But one of those picks was Melton. HomeRun!
I got a little carried away, but my point was; don’t aspire to redshirting your draft picks.

Bearsh!tt!n It ain't obscene- I'm a Bears fan that likes hittin and exclamation points.

by Bearsh!tt!n on Feb 14, 2012 1:47 AM CST up reply actions

why would u cut garza.?? I hope your joking

If your gonna cut garza then u need to sign 3 OL that aint happening..You need to sign a Guard and a left tackel you cut garza your screwed.You can move him to guard next to carimi and have spencer play were hes supposed to play at center.Then spencer having anthor year with the bears he should be better cause he knows the guys hes playing with better and playing were hes supposed to play.If you can sign a guard that can play on the left of the center position your Lt can be helped out with other blockers if needed.The 2 williams that played there were ok if you can add a better guard it would help alot.Bears need to work on the left side guard and tackel.The funny t hing is center is our deepest position we have spencer,garza and edwin williams that can play it there not the best in the NFL but they can play it leave it alone for now.

by tazz34 on Feb 13, 2012 1:40 AM CST up reply actions

?

LT: Webb
LG: CWilliams
C: Spencer
RG: EWilliams
RT: Carimi

If you cut Garza, then Louis stays on as your backup guard. The Bears can pick up a backup tackle in free agency (Anthony Collins or Sean Locklear are fine by me), and they’re up to the 7 they kept active throughout the season. If Spencer goes down, Edwin moves to center, Louis to guard, and you bring a guard off the practice squad like the Bears did with Edwin this year. There’s really no reason to worry about losing a 33 year old who was ineffective last season… it’s not hard to pick up an ineffective replacement.

by YaoPau on Feb 13, 2012 1:49 AM CST up reply actions

Actually, what am I talking about

They won’t have to cut Garza this year if the draft pick is IR’d. Still, I don’t see a reason to keep both him and Louis around. It’s possible Garza is an exceptional locker room guy, but the Bears can replace his production at a cheaper cost.

by YaoPau on Feb 13, 2012 3:08 AM CST up reply actions

Chris Spencer is a terrible center, why do you think Seattle cut him ......

Louis is too good to stay on the bench … where Webb should be. Move Chris Williams back to LT and Louis to RG, leave Spencer on the bench.

by Wally&Mac on Feb 13, 2012 7:21 AM CST up reply actions

even though Spencer played well at RG? yeah, that makes sense

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Feb 13, 2012 7:48 AM CST up reply actions

Now where Chris Spencer wasn't very good in Seattle

Can you really say he had any good coaching while in Seattle? I think Chris Spencer played much better after year 1 being coached by Tice.

Jay Cutler is our QB, and I for one am proud of that

Follow me @EDuerrwaechter

by Erik Christopher Duerrwaechter on Feb 13, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions

Steltz played well

once he got on the field. He was a pleasant surprise. Made plays.

Often Wrong, Never In Doubt.

by Gromowicz on Feb 14, 2012 12:42 AM CST up reply actions

I Wish i knew what there going to do in the free agent market but 1st and second rd pics

You should always draft Ol or DL games are won in the trenches unless your drafting f or players in need.I really dont like the whole left side of our OL i still think we need a guard and a LT.

by tazz34 on Feb 12, 2012 11:34 PM CST reply actions

These Guards need help

in the trenches. There really isn’t a whole lot of respect for these guys, they really don’t match the talent level that is require to win consistently in the NFL. Myself I would keep three of the five; Chris Williams ( Swing Tackle/G) starting LG Edwin Williams, Chris Spencer starting Center the other two can flip burgers for all I care. Yes Garza and Louis done and should not be invited to camp, bring ing some talented selections I know the can do better than the old GM.
The Bears need to draft a LT and a WR and upgrade the DB’s the number one priority in finding a pass rusher

by mcrann1 on Feb 13, 2012 6:43 AM CST reply actions

You got one thing right at least

they need to draft a LT and a WR. Cutting Louis and/or Garza makes little sense. Garza did a good enough job to warrant keeping him around another year. Louis is worth keeping to see if continues to develop. He played out of position at RT last season, I would like to see what he can do inside.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Feb 13, 2012 7:50 AM CST up reply actions

Spencer and Edwin Williams were the worst linemen the Bears had last year.

by weepingbear on Feb 13, 2012 7:57 AM CST up reply actions

Defensive End is the

most needed pick the Bear’s could make this year. Everything is predicated on the pass rush, the need is for a SLB/DE how many prospects are out there? Not Many, so the Bears’ need two of them, one in the draft, one in free agency.

by mcrann1 on Feb 13, 2012 6:50 AM CST reply actions

I can't agree with many posters on this subject...

…our OL is pretty bad almost any way you slice it. We’re an average run blocking unit and a very poor pass blocking unit, and that includes the interior of our line. There’s not one guy I would consider a league average player at his position. Chris Williams might be, but who wants to rely on his health and he only finally showed something last year. Louis/EWilliams have some growth potential but I’d hardly call either of them locks. Spencer didn’t play great, but I think he’d be average with a year in the system/offseason at OC vs. RG. Garza is bad and should be a backup OC/RG at this point.

I think what Tice has done with the talent he has been given has been great. But I think our OL has gone from abysmal to really bad… which is an improvement but nothing to write home about. The only guy on our OL who I think will ever be an above average player if he stays healthy is Carimi, and that’s a big IF with his apparent health concerns.

Problem is that you can’t get 3-5 new guys in on an OL and expect immediate improvement. I think getting Carimi back, hopefully a full season of a healthy/improved CWilliams and maybe Spencer at OC will be a nice bump, plus adding one early round pick like Adams at LT or a FA like Grubbs/Nicks could make a world of difference.

by IOftenPanic on Feb 13, 2012 9:10 AM CST reply actions

This.

Saying this line has “surprising depth” because so many players got thrown into emergency roles is a joke. The most that can be said is that a few guys did a decent job while playing out of position. Garza wasn’t a disaster at Center, but at his age he’s not the long-term solution. Chris Williams is just OK at left guard, but he’s only still on the roster because they had to justify that draft pick somehow. I like Lance Louis a whole lot, but he barely played at his ideal position and spent most of the year filling in for Carimi and Omiyale at RT. Spencer is NOT the answer at any position.

If it were up to me, the only guys “safe” at this point would be Carimi at RT if he can come back from that injury; Louis at one of the Guard spots; and Garza at either Center or Guard depending on who else they can draft or sign to fill one of those positions. Everyone else should be afraid of losing their job.

by Orval Overall on Feb 13, 2012 9:34 AM CST up reply actions

I think the biggest issue is the mixing and matching of players out of position.

CWilliams is a LT playing LG, Roberto Garza is a RG playing C, Chris Spencer is a C playing RG, Louis is a RG who played RT, Webb is a RT playing LT and I don’t care what anyone says, but Carimi is a LT playing RT. There is too much DMS on the line. Not one of these guys has actually been cemented into 1 spot and allowed to grow. Hell Edwin Williams is the best pass-protecting OG and yet he’s the one guy that never seems to be in the mix for a starting role. I think this DMS-ing and detrimental play-calling is what made this look a LOT worse than they actually are.

by frenchbears113 on Feb 13, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

+ 1

And rec’d. Until you brought it up, I hadn’t realized that nearly everyone on the O-line is basically playing out of their natural position. The question I have is – why so much DMSing on the line, and is this normal?

by JimmyMack on Feb 13, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions

I agree with most of this.

The problem is I think from what Tice has been saying we’re not going to see much change in how we do things. I don’t think CWill is a LT, he was drafted as one, but I think he was pretty good last year at LG and showed nothing at LT. Not great at LG, but certainly showed more than he had at LT. Ideally I’d like to see us try:

LT – Carimi, LG – CWill, C – Spencer, RG – Louis or EWill, RT – Webb

With our current roster that makes the most sense to me. If we are able to draft someone like Mike Adams then keeping Carimi at RT with Webb as a swing OT would make the most sense.

Regardless this team needs an injection of high-end talent on the OL.

by IOftenPanic on Feb 13, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

Just because Spencer previously played Center.

Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be a better fit at guard.
And i would venture a guess that… that there are quite a few teams that wish they had the big, athletic, young, malleable O-Lineman with NFL playing experience at multiple positions that we have. Continuity and youth are a great combination. However, upgrades are always welcome at any position.
But having an Offense next year that isn’t specifically designed to destroy our own O-Line will be a big help, too.

Bearsh!tt!n It ain't obscene- I'm a Bears fan that likes hittin and exclamation points.

by Bearsh!tt!n on Feb 13, 2012 11:20 PM CST up reply actions

yeah....why should Offensive linemen be asked to pass block anyway its not like they are getting paid for it.

. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank

by ed_brown on Feb 13, 2012 11:55 PM CST up reply actions

I'm confused?

In my post I put Spencer at Center as my preferred spot for him. So what was the objection for (maybe you misread)?

We have some big, athletic OL players, but I wouldn’t give any of Webb/Louis/CWill/EWill a better than 50% chance of becoming league average (or healthy in the case of CWill) at their position.

The only player that I’m relatively confident can be a CONSISTENTLY league-average or better OL player is Carimi and that comes with health concerns.

Guys like Webb/Louis/EWill/CWill would be great swing players/development guys on a good OL that featured some high-end talent. I don’t like any of them as starters.

But I’m more pessimistic than most it seems on our OL situation moving forward.

I do think getting out of the Martz drop backs and some consistency and training camp can help, plus another year of development and hopefully a year of Carimi and one other starter and the dumping of Omiyale should all be positivies. But this was a bad unit last year.

by IOftenPanic on Feb 14, 2012 8:25 AM CST up reply actions